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Discussion Topic: NCAA Randomness: Your Thoughts?
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on February 17, 2017

I always try to read Foley's Friday Mail Bag over on InterMat. If you don't read it, it's people asking questions and Foley answering them. The guy is knowledgeable and usually pretty even handed, in my opinion. Anyway, he was asked about the All American counts for the top contenders and he threw out some numbers. They all seemed reasonable to me until he got to tOSU. His number for the Buckeyes was four.

My stance on Buckeye fandom aside, that seems low by two. Tomesello, M.Jordan, B. Jordan, Martin, Moore and Snyder seem like solid All Americans. It strikes me odd that someone who is well versed in college wrestling would undervalue two of those six. Does he know something that I don't, or is he just wrong?



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Discussion Topic: NCAA Randomness: Your Thoughts?
William Danforth added to this discussion on February 17, 2017

Foley is more of a anti-college guy. International, submission, beach are more his thing, usually college is an afterthought. More times than not he is preaching how the NCAA wrestling should change their scoring rules.

Maybe he is a big picture guy. :)



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Discussion Topic: NCAA Randomness: Your Thoughts?
Sean Koran added to this discussion on February 17, 2017

His line of thinking could be:

- Tomasello and Snyder are locks barring unforeseen injury
- BoJo would be a lock, but there is doubt with his injury
- Martin is a returning champ, but up until the Dudley win hadn't shown that he should be an expected AA at a brutal weight
- Micah seemed to have a strong chance of AAing last year, but didn't, plus continued bottom issues
- Moore certainly seems on his way to an AA finish, but is still just a freshman

So two locks, one would be lock who has injury concerns, and three shoulds. Add in some NCAA Randomness (bad seed, bad match, catch a high seed who lost in the wrestlebacks, injury, etc.) and it is not hard to imagine 6 dropping to 5 or even, according to Foley, 4.

Also, as best I can remember, OSU has never had 6 AAs, and only had 5 once.

If I was predicting, I'd say five as things stand today. Not because I think a specific one of the the Big 6 will not AA, but because it seems like the odds are one of them won't, for whatever reason. I hope I am wrong, and hope my opinion changes after B1Gs.



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Discussion Topic: NCAA Randomness: Your Thoughts?
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on February 18, 2017

I'd be surprised if Ohio State didn't have six All Americans this year.



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Discussion Topic: NCAA Randomness: Your Thoughts?
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 18, 2017

Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:

"I'd be surprised if Ohio State didn't have six All Americans this year."



A few weeks ago, Rex mentioned that four was the likelihood.

I agree that a surging Myles Martin more likely means as many as six. At the same time, historically speaking, the Bucks almost never exceed four. In fact, they've had five on two occasions.



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Discussion Topic: NCAA Randomness: Your Thoughts?
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on February 18, 2017

I can't argue that it's likely because it's commonplace, because obviously six All Americans isn't common at Ohio State. I guess I could see excluding Martin because of his "rocky start", but to me that's even a stretch given his recent win over Dudley. It also completely discounts what he did last year...which I guess is ok, but then it would seem the logic would have to be reversed to exclude Micah Jordan. He could only be excluded if you heavily weight last year's NCAA Tourney performance. Not a big deal, just thought it was odd.



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Discussion Topic: NCAA Randomness: Your Thoughts?
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on February 18, 2017

All-Americans
3 locks (133, 174, 285) - as locks at the NCAAs go. ;-)
1 likely (197) - honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the finals. Conversely, crazy things happen to freshmen at the tournament.
2 highly possible (149, 184) - get hot, men! Micah is consistent and Myles seems to be hitting stride.

141 - mixed bag to AA for me. The cat is friggin good! I mean real good. Only issue is, at this level, you can't wrestle up a weight class and expect top 8 IN THE NATION! We have weight classes for a reason. But again, if he ends up on the podium, I'll applaud but will not be shocked.

125, 157, 165: I'm holding out for B1Gs. Need to see a spark.



Last edited by Mark Niemann on February 18, 2017; edited 1 time in total

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Discussion Topic: NCAA Randomness: Your Thoughts?
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 18, 2017

FWIW--I think Ohio State will have 6 AA and finish 2nd if Bo remains healthy.



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Discussion Topic: NCAA Randomness: Your Thoughts?
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on February 18, 2017

Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:

"FWIW--I think Ohio State will have 6 AA and finish 2nd if Bo remains healthy."



Behind PSU, in assuming. If that is the case, what happens to Ok. State?

Around Christmas, I asked Tommy Rowlands about Ok State. He said they have a habit of fading down the stretch. I've been watching for it. Haven't seen it yet. But OBVIOUSLY he's more in tune with what it takes to peak in March and at #STL thank I do.

My issue is numbers. They have NINE guys currently ranked in the top 10. Granted, if all finish to current ranking, 9th doesn't get you placement points but still. Oh, and the one guy who isn't ranked top 10 - is 11th!!!

Bottom line, you need finalists. PSU, and Ohio State, have them. But I think Ok. State can muster a few top 5 finishers to help Heil. They need one more finalist to position the team for a three-way slug fest!



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Discussion Topic: NCAA Randomness: Your Thoughts?
Brian Nicola added to this discussion on February 18, 2017

Here's my call. I think they get all 10 through. I think they also get 6 on the podium..

125- Rodriguez (7th B1G, 1-2 NCAA)- Weigh in, eat, score, eat, score, eat, score.

133- Tomasello (2nd B1G, 1st NCAA) - Clark gets him at conference, but NaTo will do him dirty at the big show. I think the final will be a shut down, 5-2 kind of match.

141- Pletcher (4th B1G, 2-2 NCAA)- I'm either over or under valuing this stout gentleman.

149- M. Jordan (3rd B1G, 4th NCAA)- I want to see that length employed. I don't see how he doesn't medal.

157- Ryan (7th B1G, 0-2 NCAA)- Big fan of Jake, I might be looking through glasses on this one.

165- Burcher (6th B1G, with a notable upset win, 1-2 NCAA)- Someone gets the Claymont cradles at conference.

174- B. Jordan (NQ at B1G, 1st NCAA) - I think once Jordan qualifies, he will sit rest of day at conference. I have no scoop, inside track, nothing. Just a gut. I think he wins it two weeks later, though.

184- Martin - (3rd B1G, 4th NCAA) - OK, I'm a homer, let me pitch this. I could see a situation here, based on all the hoopla surrounding Dean and Nickal, where one of thse guys gets upset weirdly in bracket. They are amazing, and I get that, but ti think this is the weight that it will happen. I don't believe Nickal wins his title this year. I'm also calling it: if one loses, Martin wins it again. I don't think he can go through both. However, if history and J Jaggers have taught us nothing, it is that some people "shine when the lights are brightest". My gut tells me Martin is that type of guy. So, I've got him 4th for safety, but if one of the top two loses, I've got him winning his second title.

197- Moore (2nd B1G, 2nd NCAA) - I think he loses to Pfarr at conference, but upends him at NCAA. I also think it's possible...in the 15% range...that he turns it around on Cox and wins the whole damn thing. Now, for clarification, I don't think he's at Cox's level, but I think his motor and style makes him the best guy to do so.

285- Snyder (1st B1G, 1st NCAA) - Big boy moves will be used against opponents.



Last edited by Brian Nicola on February 18, 2017; edited 3 times in total

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Discussion Topic: NCAA Randomness: Your Thoughts?
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on February 18, 2017

Mark...In my opinion OSU has that other finalist to compliment Heil, his name is Kaid Brock.



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Discussion Topic: NCAA Randomness: Your Thoughts?
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on February 18, 2017

I keep reading that Myles is having a down year but he has lost to the following

#2 Nickal (8-2)
#3 Brooks (5-3)
Renda (RS and lost to Dean 3-1 at NCAA last year)
#9 Dechow (7-4)
#11 Macciavello (M. For)
#6 Zavatsky (6-4)

He has beaten the following

#6 Dudley (was 3 at the time)
#12 Parker
#13 Gravina



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Discussion Topic: NCAA Randomness: Your Thoughts?
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on February 18, 2017

Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:

"Mark...In my opinion OSU has that other finalist to compliment Heil, his name is Kaid Brock."



Certainly!!!!!



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Discussion Topic: NCAA Randomness: Your Thoughts?
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 18, 2017

Sean Koran--tOSU has had five AA's twice....the year they won NCAA's and the Hellickson year they took third with Tommy winning title #2. Rowlands, J. Clark, B. Kaplan, J.D. Bergman and Jeff Ratliff all placed.



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Discussion Topic: NCAA Randomness: Your Thoughts?
Rex Holman added to this discussion on February 18, 2017

FWIW, I really loved tOSU v Nebraska performance. As said, Tomasello and Snyder are locks. A lot of other question marks heading into the Big 10s.

There is a level of preparation that you miss out on if you can't train hard due to injury. It happened to Tervel at the Olympics. You can still beat high level guys, but your conditioning is not at top level and injuries seem to resurface when you stress your body. That is my concern with Bo. That being said, I think he places top 6 even if impaired.

Myles Martin is doing his best wrestling to date, which leads me to believe he is a gamer. I think he places 3-6.

I really like KMoore to place but, being a freshman and wrestling a whole season with a head of steam is a tough thing to do. He already wins on guts and a frantic pace. If the world was a fair place, he would finish 3-5 this year. He likely places but not a lock.

I was unhappy with Micah's showing against Zain. Granted Retherford is a beast. He didn't show that killer instinct of getting in Zain's face and fighting for every situation. He very likely AAs this year, but not a lock.

Pletcher is darkhorse. It could happen if everything goes right. He is getting really good coaching and you can tell he listens and adapts.

As a fan I will be really happy with 5 AAs, ecstatic with 6, and if 7 were to happen then it is just flat out amazing.



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