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Discussion Topic: Olympic Thoughts
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on August 23, 2016
Quote from Rex Holman's post:
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"Younger wrestlers are getting it done. ....A pathway for the top young wrestler to medal or place at the Worlds and Olympics detours through the resident OTC in Colorado Springs. Snyder spent his senior year in high school there. Cejudo. Two the past three mens champions. Both on the younger spectrum of the scale."
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To quote Zeke Jones on why we have a handful of great young American wrestlers now, from July issue AmWrNews:
Zeke Jones Opines
Events like Akron and Fargo offer an opportunity to talk to coaches in an atmosphere where they can relax compared to the college season. Zeke Jones has been head coach for two years at Arizona State after leading our national teams in great shape at USAWR where he was Head Coach of the USA National Freestyle Wrestling Team which oversees national development as well.
Zeke gave me some insights as to why we have so many mat-ready young wrestlers able to win World medals now compared to 10, 20, 30 years ago. Zeke told me the key is that the best young guys now are getting foreign exposure at an early age and a lot of it. He says raising money for that foreign exposure while he was the National Coach was a major goal of his. Zeke said that when he won silver at the Barcelona Olympics it was only his second time competing overseas.
Zeke told me, “Not only did we focus on foreign exposure but we put more emphasis on becoming a Junior World Champion. Kids like Kyle Snyder were convinced that it was better to become a Junior World Champion then to win four state titles. We know that’s not necessarily popular with parents or high school coaches but we knew Kyle had special gift and his support system at home knew he could do too.â€
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Discussion Topic: Olympic Thoughts
Rex Holman added to this discussion on August 23, 2016
Hank-
Reread my statement. I agree with what you said. People need to trick him in order to score points. Conventional attacks don't work on him because his position is so excellent.
My point is that I have only seen him get out of position a handful of times ( out of position can be a mistake), which is simply amazing as well.
Thanks for the insight Bob! I like the idea of our top tier jumiors eyeing up a Jr World Championship and making that of primary importance.
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Discussion Topic: Olympic Thoughts
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on August 23, 2016
Am excited to see Sadulaev, the Russian Tank, and Snyderman mix it up. Popular thought is that Sadulaev is going up to 97kg. Amazing match-up between two World and Olympics Champs who are both approx the same age.
Only concern for memin that match-up is in par terre. Russian has a great gut.
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Discussion Topic: Olympic Thoughts
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on August 23, 2016
Zeke Jones did a really great job while running USA Wrestling Freestyle and Bob's post is another example of his impact.
Rex--got it.
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Discussion Topic: Olympic Thoughts
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on August 24, 2016
I am a huge fan of the Olympic/International wrestling style and format. UWW has made many very positive changes.
The best thing about the format is the quick pace of the tournament. So much better than wrestling in the morning then waiting 8 hours to wrestle in the evening. This places an emphasis on training and cardio, and for me as a fan leads to easy consumption.
I also like the scoring rules. The push out is effective. I used to get annoyed by the criteria, but now that I understand the scoring metrics, it makes sense.
All in all, very fun to watch.
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Discussion Topic: Olympic Thoughts
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on August 24, 2016
Ethan: Your points are excellent but there is one problem-- the shot clock. Saw too many examples where one wrestler gave up a point and the other wrestler was never put on the clock. Cox got hosed. So did one of the American women. So did Molinaro. But, generally speaking, the pace of wrestling is excellent and we are seeing more action with the rule changes. There are some obvious tweaks to be made (good article on InterMat my Mom of an Iowa wrestler on this topic).
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Discussion Topic: Olympic Thoughts
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on August 24, 2016
Ethan: Your points are excellent but there is one problem-- the shot clock. Saw too many examples where one wrestler gave up a point and the other wrestler was never put on the clock. Cox got hosed. So did one of the American women. So did Molinaro. But, generally speaking, the pace of wrestling is excellent and we are seeing more action with the rule changes. There are some obvious tweaks to be made (good article on InterMat my Mom of an Iowa wrestler on this topic).
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Discussion Topic: Olympic Thoughts
Mike Stann added to this discussion on August 25, 2016
Hank and Ethan, I also have become a big fan of freestyle. I actually love criteria (how it is prioritized could be improved) because it does away with the tie match with a minute remaining and nobody takes a chance and wrestles for overtime. You know who is ahead and I have seen some spectacular finishes because one wrestler had to score. Hank I don't think the problem is the shot clock but how it is administered (really same as folkstyle). It seemed to me at the Worlds in Vegas it was much more fairly applied (i.e. if one wrestler got put on the clock so did the other unless he scored before then). In the Olympics it seemed a lot more leeway was given some wrestlers.
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Discussion Topic: Olympic Thoughts
Lou Demas added to this discussion on August 25, 2016
The current rules favor youth and athleticism, flowrestling just did an article stating the average age of a gold medalist in the Olympics was 22.67 years old. This age is when many of our best wrestlers are seniors in college and focusing all their efforts on the NCAA title and have been for the last 4 or 5 years.
Isn't it now more imperative too, at the very least modify folk style rules to reflect the current Olympic rules if we want to give our wrestlers the best chance of success at the highest levels?
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Discussion Topic: Olympic Thoughts
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on August 25, 2016
folkstyle no deterent to winning in freestyle, 2 current college stars Cox & Snyder were our mens medalists and both under 22. Two big stars on their way still wr folk, Spencer Lee & Mark Hall- Aaron Pico doing MMA, no longer folk.
fyi, some in Columbus area might wish to attend:
Columbus, Ohio – The Department of Athletics will host a welcome back event for the current Buckeyes who participated this summer at the Olympic Games in Rio on Monday, August 29 at 6 p.m. in the West Plaza at the Ohio Union. Parking is available in the garages surrounding the Union. The program will include remarks by President Michael V. Drake, Senior Vice President and Wolfe Foundation Endowed Athletics Director Gene Smith and each returning Olympian.
Slated to participate in event are Mona Shaito (fencing), Dustin Tynes (swimming), Eleanor Harvey (fencing), Aina Cid-Centelles (rowing), Lou Rosselli (coach, wrestling), bronze medalist Nichelle Prince (soccer) and gold medalist Kyle Snyder (wrestling).
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Discussion Topic: Olympic Thoughts
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on August 25, 2016
While I think the current college rules better align with the current incarnation of freestyle, there is no doubt that Folk holds us back. We are a second rate wrestling nation in men's freestyle (Turkey, Iran, Russia and Azerbaijan are all much better) and we are nearly irrelevant in greco. We'd be a lot more competitive if more of our top wrestlers trained and competed on a constant basis in the Olympic styles.
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Discussion Topic: Olympic Thoughts
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on August 25, 2016
plenty of our top guys do train fulltime for freestyle but either cant make a USA World/Olympic team or if they do they don't medal-- other top guys choose to get a job, start a career, and move on with their lives.
"re Turkey, Iran, Russia and Azerbaijan are all much better", yes & my hats off to them. However let's face it- citizens in those countries don't have the choices that guys in the USA do to move on with their lives in other ways.
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Discussion Topic: Olympic Thoughts
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on August 25, 2016
Remember when Michael Jordan tried baseball? He just couldn't hit high level pitching. The reason? He had missed out on years of developing the skill it took. You have to develop certain reactions/brain skills at a young age.
Logan Stieber is a great example. Somewhere on youtube there's video of him wrestling in 6th grade. His style at age 12 is similar to what we saw when he was in college. He'd picked up more technique as he got older but anyone familiar with his wrestling can see a remarkable similarity between this younger version of Logan and the guy who's now one of the all time great collegiate wrestlers.
J'den Cox and Kyle Snyder are exceptions because they're physical freaks. But most American wrestlers who fully devote themselves to freestyle post-collegiate are already too late. The skills they needed to excel--which are second nature to wrestlers from Azerbaijan and Turkey--are lacking.
Personally, I think this American men's freestyle team wrestled very well. Had Burroughs not been a shell of himself, the USA would have had 3 medalists and 2 5th placers.
I understand our attachment to Folkstyle. It's ours. But if we want to be on the level of our counterparts in swimming, women's gymnastics and track, we need our best talent competing full time at a younger age in the Olympic styles. My opinion...but I'm right.
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Discussion Topic: Olympic Thoughts
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on August 25, 2016
as usual u think u r, nothings changed over the years, lol
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Discussion Topic: Olympic Thoughts
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on August 26, 2016
Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"as usual u think u r, nothings changed over the years, lol"
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Take's one to know one.
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