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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on June 27, 2016
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"You keep saying he's a businessman. Same thing was said about W. "
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i'm sure u realize thats not a legit argument Hank, any faiures by W are not Trumps fault nor do they reflect on what he might do if he becomes prez. Trump ended the Bush political dynasty, thats fact. Two different men.
and yes i prefer a Pol who at some time risked their own money in business.... And yes i wish it were someone other than Trump.
Hillary & Bill made a fortune making speeches to the likes of Goldman Sachs for $300k, i wonder what they said? Obama will be making those speeches too.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Jason L. Jackson added to this discussion on June 27, 2016
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Hank is a businessman, as am I, and together, I'm willing to bet that we haven't filed bankruptcy four (4) times, as Trump's companies have.
If Trump being a businessman is his biggest selling point, the equivalent failure on the political level would be being impeached four (4) times.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Mike Stann added to this discussion on June 28, 2016
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George W has made 10 million on speaking fees since he was president according to Politico. Donald charges 1.5 million per speaking engagement according to Kathleen Parker a conservative writer. Just the facts folks.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on June 28, 2016
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Quote from Jason L. Jackson's post:
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"Hank is a businessman, as am I, and together, I'm willing to bet that we haven't filed bankruptcy four (4) times, as Trump's companies have.
If Trump being a businessman is his biggest selling point, the equivalent failure on the political level would be being impeached four (4) times."
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(to repeat myself i don't like Trump nor W)....however, lol, JLJ comment is too rich to pass up.
JLJ u a lawyer, u know "bankruptcy" is a legitimate legal maneuver, millions of people & businesses have used it. Lawyers advertise on TV that they will file it for us. Your colleagues seek our business in this legal maneuver u find seedy.
Not quite same as "impeachment", which we know Bill Clinton was one of only 2 American presidents to be impeached by House of Representatives.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Mike Stann added to this discussion on June 28, 2016
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"
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Quote from Jason L. Jackson's post:
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"Hank is a businessman, as am I, and together, I'm willing to bet that we haven't filed bankruptcy four (4) times, as Trump's companies have.
If Trump being a businessman is his biggest selling point, the equivalent failure on the political level would be being impeached four (4) times."
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(to repeat myself i don't like Trump nor W)....however, lol, JLJ comment is too rich to pass up.
JLJ u a lawyer, u know "bankruptcy" is a legitimate legal maneuver, millions of people & businesses have used it. Lawyers advertise on TV that they will file it for us. Your colleagues seek our business in this legal maneuver u find seedy.
Not quite same as "impeachment", which we know Bill Clinton was one of only 2 American presidents to be impeached by House of Representatives."
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One of those impeachments was simply an exercise in partisan politics. Trump's bankruptcies ended up stiffing hundreds of those he did business with. Also Trump's money was made by his father. He won't release his taxes I'm guessing because it would show that his claims of being a savvy businessman are bs. He no more has the good of America in mind than do the Clinton's.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Mike Stann added to this discussion on June 28, 2016
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"
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Quote from Jason L. Jackson's post:
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"Hank is a businessman, as am I, and together, I'm willing to bet that we haven't filed bankruptcy four (4) times, as Trump's companies have.
If Trump being a businessman is his biggest selling point, the equivalent failure on the political level would be being impeached four (4) times."
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(to repeat myself i don't like Trump nor W)....however, lol, JLJ comment is too rich to pass up.
JLJ u a lawyer, u know "bankruptcy" is a legitimate legal maneuver, millions of people & businesses have used it. Lawyers advertise on TV that they will file it for us. Your colleagues seek our business in this legal maneuver u find seedy.
Not quite same as "impeachment", which we know Bill Clinton was one of only 2 American presidents to be impeached by House of Representatives."
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One of those impeachments was simply an exercise in partisan politics. Trump's bankruptcies ended up stiffing hundreds of those he did business with. Also Trump's money was made by his father. He won't release his taxes I'm guessing because it would show that his claims of being a savvy businessman are bs. He no more has the good of America in mind than do the Clinton's.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on June 28, 2016
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I wasn't going to comment, but, what the hell...
This is an interesting conversation, for sure...and one that's going on all over the country. I agree that Hillary is a terribly flawed candidate, but it's hard to watch (and read) republicans trying to fit Donald Trump into a box that makes him acceptable.
I grew up a child of the '80s, the youngest of three to two Cuban refugees that were both Reagan democrats. I believe in hard work and discipline. I believe in personal responsibility and accountability as well as fiscal responsibility and individual freedom from a policy standpoint. There are virtues within the republican ideology.
But, what's happened to the Republican Party of the last ten years has been horrible. The hipocrisy with which they go after Benghazi...while being the party that that sold "weapons of mass destruction" to justify the Iraq war? And as tragic as that decision (to lie to the country and the world in order to go to war) is, I can almost forgive it. It was post 911. No one was thinking straight. But when you combine that with the Sarah Palin VP pick, the voter I.D. laws, the do nothing congress and the ridiculous abortion regulations (from the party of "small government") that just got overturned by the Supreme Court and you see a party lost.
Now, they are rallying around a man whom they loathe, and who privately they are scared shitless of and who does not share their values. They just want a win and think he might. They are even more spineless than I thought they were.
When Ronald Reagan left the Democratic Party he said, "I didn't leave the democratic party, the Democratic Party left me". Great conservative thinker George Will said the same this week about the Republican Party...and he's right. I don't know how any smart, thoughtful American can think that Donald Trump is right for the highest office in the land. Hating Hillary Clinton isn't enough.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on June 28, 2016
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u right MikeR when u say, "But, what's happened to the Republican Party of the last ten years has been horrible." ...my sentiments exactly... though i might differ on a couple of your contentions, u made a overall good point.
and then theres the Dems too feeble to take advantage of it. Theyve lost much of their traditional base- union guys, blue collars, the hardworking class --- now much of the party is made up of those looking for bigger govt & a handout.
Career pols killed both parties, thats why the biggest party now is "Independents" like me and i'm guessing you.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Roe Fox added to this discussion on June 28, 2016
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This is an argument with no end. Everyone keeps pointing out just how bad the other candidate is. There is very little positive to say about either of the presidential candidates this year, if anything.
If republicans field even a moderately viable candidate, that person would destroy Clinton. She is very fortunate that Donald Trump is her opponent. Both of them have negatives well over 50%.
It's one thing to have one bad candidate and one good candidate. It is another to have two candidates from the major parties whom no one likes. It is an embarrassment to the Country. It is also a reflection, in Trump's and Sander's case, of the Country's discontent with the federal government.
Not taking sides. Just stating what I believe is reality:
Trump has filed bankruptcy like many others to protect assets. He probably has been part of hundreds of corporations and he is cited for four. He is, however, the ultimate narcissist. I also consider him to be less than honest on many things. And he has small hands.
Clinton should be indicted based on what we know now, let alone what may come out eventually. She has zero accomplishments of significance despite all her supposed experience in government. She stood by the biggest manwhore in any political office for her own political benefit. Zero integrity.
To W's defense, he was more than a businessman: he successfully ran the largest state for two terms. That's far better experience than Trump. What he did as President may be debatable but he was a highly successful governor.
I've never enjoyed politics less than this year.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Roe Fox added to this discussion on June 28, 2016
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"I wasn't going to comment, but, what the hell...
This is an interesting conversation, for sure...and one that's going on all over the country. I agree that Hillary is a terribly flawed candidate, but it's hard to watch (and read) republicans trying to fit Donald Trump into a box that makes him acceptable.
I grew up a child of the '80s, the youngest of three to two Cuban refugees that were both Reagan democrats. I believe in hard work and discipline. I believe in personal responsibility and accountability as well as fiscal responsibility and individual freedom from a policy standpoint. There are virtues within the republican ideology.
But, what's happened to the Republican Party of the last ten years has been horrible. The hipocrisy with which they go after Benghazi...while being the party that that sold "weapons of mass destruction" to justify the Iraq war? And as tragic as that decision (to lie to the country and the world in order to go to war) is, I can almost forgive it. It was post 911. No one was thinking straight. But when you combine that with the Sarah Palin VP pick, the voter I.D. laws, the do nothing congress and the ridiculous abortion regulations (from the party of "small government") that just got overturned by the Supreme Court and you see a party lost.
Now, they are rallying around a man whom they loathe, and who privately they are scared shitless of and who does not share their values. They just want a win and think he might. They are even more spineless than I thought they were.
When Ronald Reagan left the Democratic Party he said, "I didn't leave the democratic party, the Democratic Party left me". Great conservative thinker George Will said the same this week about the Republican Party...and he's right. I don't know how any smart, thoughtful American can think that Donald Trump is right for the highest office in the land. Hating Hillary Clinton isn't enough."
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Michael:
I appreciate your opinion but some of your juxtapositions don't make sense, in some instances. They didn't sell weapons of mass distraction. They got it wrong. They can be critiqued for that. But it is not the same as Benghazi. With Benghazi, the ambassador specifically requested additional security. It was not supplied. People died as a result of that specific decision. Clinton ran the state departments in all the countries. It was her responsibility. Then they literally try to sell some bogus Islamic revolution problem spurred on by a video.
Voter ID laws? You don't think we should make sure that the person voting is actually the person who was supposed to vote? You do realize that you don't have to have a drivers license. You just have to have a simple state ID card under those laws. What's the difference who is the presidential candidate if dead people and ten-year-olds are voting?
And if you like George Will, as I do, you have acknowledge his position on gridlock. He supports it. A do-nothing Congress is better than a do everything for everyone Congress.
If Ronald Reagan was in the Republican primary this year he would've dropped out in October. There is no way he would've won under the current climate.
As a child up to Cuban refugees, I wonder your position on the reopening of Cuban relations. I ask that because I truly understand both positions. I can't stand what Castro has done to his people but I have always believed that exposure and information are the way to freedom.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on June 28, 2016
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RF says, "Voter ID laws? You don't think we should make sure that the person voting is actually the person who was supposed to vote? You do realize that you don't have to have a drivers license. You just have to have a simple state ID card under those laws."
Roe. i'm with u on this, just prove you are a citizen and of age.. in Ohio u don't need much proof to vote.
Last November i voted here in Cleveland the lady ahead of me had a problem with acceptable IDs, finally the woman in charge of the registration asked her "Do you have a UTILITY BILL, that will be sufficient." ...a utility bill !
Istanbul the latest terror attack tonite, 32 dead... and there will be many more leading up to election. Big issues will be jobs, immigration, globalization and national defense.
Trump has built things and employed people, he has taken strong stances on immigration, all of which means like him or not Trump can win.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on June 28, 2016
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Roe...your point on Benghazi is a valid one, but we're talking about a relatively small number or deaths versus the complete destruction of a a country and the void left has given rise to many of the issues Americans fear most. Did Hillary Clinton make a bad call and then try to cover her tracks? Yes. Does that make her a dishonest politician? Yes. Does that mean she's be a shitty president? I don't know.
I don't personally believe it (the Iraq war) was just bad intelligence. I think people in power knew where they wanted to be and painted a picture for the rest of the world that would allow them to get there. I don't think those people: President Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, et al are evil. I just think they had an agenda. That's certainly debatable.
With regard to opening up normal relations with Cuba? I am now, and have always been, all for it. I think both sides gain from more interaction with each other...and I think Cuba in particular would thrive with a more capitalistic model. It would hurt the US none and American values would seep into every crack and crevous of the big island in no time. That's just my opinion...I'm wrong a lot.
Mr. Pruesse, your point in the Democratic Party are valid. They lost working class whites a decade ago. Too much government and too many people looking for hand outs. I can't argue with that. But there's no way to get help to those who need it without making it available to those who might abuse it. Smarter men than me have tried to figure that one out and obviously fallen short. I work in urban education and people need help. The things they deal with on a day-to-day basis are more than any father/mother/son/daughter should ever half to. I don't know what the answer is, but I feel like liberals are far closer to what's right then conservatives. America is a progressive nation. It's forward thinking. It's a leader. We're never going back. When Donald Trump talks about "making America great again", he's talking about turning back the clock to a time where things were simpler, easier...but they were only easier for a certain part of the population...a part of the population that is less than it used to be. We're not going back there. At least I don't think we are. But like I said, I'm wrong a lot.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Roe Fox added to this discussion on June 29, 2016
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Did Hillary Clinton make a bad call and then try to cover her tracks? Yes. Does that make her a dishonest politician? Yes. Does that mean she's be a shitty president?
Michael: There was a time this would absolutely disqualify her as president. Watergate only involved the cover-up of a break in at the Democratic Party and it ended the presidency of someone who up to that point had done some remarkable things politically.
This involves a cover-up of a horrible decision resulting in the death of an ambassador and three others.
And yet it's not only you who is being somewhat dismissive of this issue. Millions seem to be joining you. And I am not a Trump supporter.
I suppose I'm just expressing my frustration with pathetic state of American politics this year.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on June 29, 2016
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I can't argue with that. History will look back at this election as the two most disliked cadidates of all time. I find it unbelievable that a country with this much talent can't field two better cadidates. It's sad.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Mike Stann added to this discussion on June 29, 2016
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There is a reason that we are so disgusted with politics at this point in time. Our political process is basically up for sale. Money has become so necessary to getting elected that everyone running is up for sale. Wall Street lavished money on both parties to keep from being regulated. There's a reason almost no one got sent to prison for causing the largest recession since the Depression. And it now appears it is business as usual. Those savvy businessmen the Koch Brothers pour money into local elections to further their agenda of non regulation of their business interests. Small businesses the heart and soul of local economies are paid lip service with no real help from either party while Hugh corporations take advantage of tax breaks and cheap labor overseas all the while protected by both parties. All politicians now have to sell their access to the highest bidders to survive in this political arenas. Even those that truly have their constituencies best interest at heart can't avoid the appearance of influence peddling. All of this leads us to apathy and cynicism of the political process. Which leads us to the very dangerous man on the white horse. All the while we are misdirected as to the cause of our problems. We are told it is the takers, the foreigners, the Mexicans, the Muslim s, those that stand in the way of true capitalism, they are the enemy. IMO nothing will change until we the people take back our political process by getting money out of it and making it a contest of ideas and not a contest of who has the most cash.
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