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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Rick Wasmer added to this discussion on July 6, 2016
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"Everything."
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Well then, I guess we better get started.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Roe Fox added to this discussion on July 6, 2016
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"There's no accountability for lying to the public. Hillary has been busted lying plenty of times. Trump lies literally every time he speaks. It's his national pastime. It's sad."
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We lie to ourselves, Hank. We don't police each other. We don't first look in the mirror. People sit behind screen names and laugh at a Trump and Clinton. Politics has become a sitcom or reality show instead of the nobile pursuit of governing.
Every high school or college coach on here has the opportunity to change this, as I do in my occupation. Teach these kids HOW to think, not what to think. Show them that tweeting a thought is not the same as thinking it through and logically discussing it with someone who disagrees with you. Respect those who differ. Its not the same as "giving in."
As Reagan said, if you agree with me 70% of the time your my friend, not my enemy.
Everyone wants to tear people down rather than build themselves -- and others -- up. That's one of the things about being on a wrestling team that I loved: we push other to be better, not worse. We strive for perfection knowing it's not obtainable. I gave mediocre a bad name. Still, there was no quit, in me or any of my teammates. Wrestling weeds out the weak. We persevere regardless of the odds.
The solution is easy. Getting there is hard. Everyone in the general public wants the easy (read Trump Clinton) way out. Lie, cheat, call names. Why work hard to improve when you can spread a rumor and tear down. The biggest political fix EVER is Clinton not getting indicted. Watergate was nothing compared to this. At least we know Trump is a Charleton. He is sincere in his insincerity.
But who wants to really change things? Few, because it's hard.
At the end of the day I think we want the same thing: a better America.
And TOSU to win the NCAAs. Except for MRod.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on July 6, 2016
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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"
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"There's no accountability for lying to the public. Hillary has been busted lying plenty of times. Trump lies literally every time he speaks. It's his national pastime. It's sad."
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We lie to ourselves, Hank. We don't police each other. We don't first look in the mirror. People sit behind screen names and laugh at a Trump and Clinton. Politics has become a sitcom or reality show instead of the nobile pursuit of governing.
Every high school or college coach on here has the opportunity to change this, as I do in my occupation. Teach these kids HOW to think, not what to think. Show them that tweeting a thought is not the same as thinking it through and logically discussing it with someone who disagrees with you. Respect those who differ. Its not the same as "giving in."
As Reagan said, if you agree with me 70% of the time your my friend, not my enemy.
Everyone wants to tear people down rather than build themselves -- and others -- up. That's one of the things about being on a wrestling team that I loved: we push other to be better, not worse. We strive for perfection knowing it's not obtainable. I gave mediocre a bad name. Still, there was no quit, in me or any of my teammates. Wrestling weeds out the weak. We persevere regardless of the odds.
The solution is easy. Getting there is hard. Everyone in the general public wants the easy (read Trump Clinton) way out. Lie, cheat, call names. Why work hard to improve when you can spread a rumor and tear down. The biggest political fix EVER is Clinton not getting indicted. Watergate was nothing compared to this. At least we know Trump is a Charleton. He is sincere in his insincerity.
But who wants to really change things? Few, because it's hard.
At the end of the day I think we want the same thing: a better America.
And TOSU to win the NCAAs. Except for MRod."
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MRod agrees with you 70% of the time. Jus' Sayin'. ; )
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on July 7, 2016
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Nicely said, Roe (although I think Clinton not being indicted is not a "fix").
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on July 7, 2016
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When discussing "what's wrong" with America and how to fix it, things get touchy for a lot of people. You can come off as unpatriotic, un-American or even ungrateful for the opportunities that American has given you. I personally don't think being critical of The United States makes you a bad American, quite the opposite...but not everyone feels that way.
First off, I'm not sure anyone can agree on what's wrong, let alone how to go about fixing it. One person's solutions are another person's problems. In my opinion, there are massive problems with education, healthcare, entitlement programs, the legal system, the prison system, the tax code, the banking system, infrastructure and all levels of government (to name a few). There's so much wrong that it would take truly radical change to right the ship. The only way that happens is with leadership...and as we all know, that leader isn't on the ballot this November, and not on the horizon for anytime soon.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on July 7, 2016
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"Lying is only part of it. The gravity of this e-mail matter is not being fully grasped by many people---
FBI Director stated: during her tenure as Secretary of State Clinton has been ---and i quote the Director -- "Extremely careless with highly classified information" including Top Secret. Evidence shows throughout her tenure as Sec State.
in the documentary of General Eisenhower's decision to launch the D-day Armada in 1944, a staff General officer in a restaurant had too much to drink and blurted out that the launch "would be coming soon".
Though the man was Ike's friend and former classmate at West Point, Eisenhower had the MP's place the General in custody, ordered him reduced in rank and immediately shipped back to the United States. ....this was considered the severity for a one-time ooooops "careless handling" of top secret info in war time.
We ARE at war now, our survival is at stake every day."
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Actually Bob came up with a much better example than I could but I was going to add something.
A buddy of mine was riding with me yesterday and this subject came up. He served in the Pacific aboard a destroyer during Viet Nam. His question to me was simple. What did I think would happen to anyone in the military (any rank) who did EXACTLY what the Secretary of State did? His feeling is that they would be very lucky if all they received was a dishonorable discharge. It would likely be worse.
He then asked me "what is the difference?".
I have to admit that I didn't see one.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
David Brown added to this discussion on July 7, 2016
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Our frustration grows in accordance with our expectations. I think people were less frustrated with our government when they expected less of it.
As fed government has grown exponentially it goes without saying that we think it should do more, as it often promises to do.
IMO most of our problems today do not have political solutions. It is like me getting upset with our local police officer because he can't help my marriage or fix my spending habits or bring my son's algebra grade up.
Not saying fed is impotent I just think we expect too much. We expect too much because the fed tries too much, promises too much.
All around the country local govs are doing really cool and innovative things when they are allowed to. That is what keeps me optimistic.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Rick Wasmer added to this discussion on July 7, 2016
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"When discussing "what's wrong" with America and how to fix it, things get touchy for a lot of people. You can come off as unpatriotic, un-American or even ungrateful for the opportunities that American has given you. I personally don't think being critical of The United States makes you a bad American, quite the opposite...but not everyone feels that way.
First off, I'm not sure anyone can agree on what's wrong, let alone how to go about fixing it. One person's solutions are another person's problems. In my opinion, there are massive problems with education, healthcare, entitlement programs, the legal system, the prison system, the tax code, the banking system, infrastructure and all levels of government (to name a few). There's so much wrong that it would take truly radical change to right the ship. The only way that happens is with leadership...and as we all know, that leader isn't on the ballot this November, and not on the horizon for anytime soon."
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I understand exactly what you're saying, and I appreciate you expressing your opinion on this.
I really feel Bernie Sanders was our opportunity for meaningful change. I think he's shown leadership and honesty going back to the '60s.
Another reason I wanted him to get the nomination was to avoid the stuff Hillary is going thru.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on July 7, 2016
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Dave Brown right, Big Govt cant solve our problems. The concept has merely set up high expectations that, though promised, can't be met. Fact is, alot of our problems reside within ourselves.
Americans want Legislation to solve everything, thus we get these silly laws like the "N. Carolina Bathroom Law". Where was there a problem? Who pays attention to what bathroom someone uses?? Long-time teachers tell me litigation has ruined public schools.
No leader can unify America unless we are in a World War II type scenario. The wars we have been in, in recent years, very few feel the pain thus no unity.
This country is fractured and can't be unified in peacetime, Why not? examples:
...some want more entitlements, others say don't tax me to pay for it (but i want to keep my entitlement.)
...some join the military, others say let the other guy go fight my battle, i owe my country nothing.
...some feel free College tuition is their birthright, others say u pay for yours like i did.
...some want Big Govt to solve everything, others say Big Govt get out of my life.
...retirees who saved $$ for retirement want interest rates above zero, borrowers say keep rates very low & screw the savers.
...some want certain mood-changing drugs legalized, others say it will ruin the country.
...some want abortion to stay legalized, others say No it's against my beliefs.
...some want more money for social programs, others say not out of my tax dollar.
...some luv Hillary, she is a woman with a social-conscience. Others hate her as a liar & phony.
...Same for Trump, either he tells it like it is and will bring jobs back or he is a bigot and narcissist.
***ONE THING i do know, each of us born here or who immigrated here, we WON THE LOTTERY. ...s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on July 7, 2016
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I'll be back (eventually) but one thing I was thinking was -
Absolute truth exists. The more areas in which we depart from this fact, the further and further we drift into error.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Mike Stann added to this discussion on July 7, 2016
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***ONE THING i do know, each of us born here or who immigrated here, we WON THE LOTTERY. ...s/BobP[/quote]
True that Bob, true that.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on July 7, 2016
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Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
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"I'll be back (eventually) but one thing I was thinking was -
Absolute truth exists. The more areas in which we depart from this fact, the further and further we drift into error."
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Lunatic talk!
If we all just do what is right in our own eyes, everything will work out.
We must tolerate every perspective and worldview...except the intolerant one, of course.
What does the color 7 smell like?
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on July 7, 2016
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Quote from Bruce Andrews's post:
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"
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Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
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"....believing the lie that we are getting closer to droid level than the fire waiting to consume this land."
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I am not sure what you are trying to say here. Would you be willing to elaborate?"
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I was using voice to text -- it was supposed to say ground level.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on July 7, 2016
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Nieman is correct -- that just sounds like crazy talk -- but he is correct.
Many people today would rather be "easy living slaves" than "hard living free men". This is one big problem I see today.
BobP, you are correct. Litigation is a bane to education. What children need to grow up into respectable adults is VERY difficult to provide them in today's public schools -- outside of the athletic realm, where is is just regular difficult to do so.
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Discussion Topic: Cleveland Right Now
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on July 8, 2016
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Very much agree with Dave Brown that expecting government to fix everything is a terrible solution. No wrestler ever won a state title because he was 6th best but promoted to the top. Earning your keep has to be part of any society worth living in. At the same time, one can't ignore that past injustices affect current circumstances. If you grow up in poverty and have bad role models all around, what are you likely to become? There are always exceptions but the vast majority will turn out badly.
Our discourse has become frayed to the point where we can't have a serious conversation. Most of us have mixed points of view--liberal in some areas and conservative in others. I find myself overwhelmingly frustrated when I express an opinion on one issue and immediately find myself labeled by angry folks looking for a fight.
There is, however, one area where there is truth and that is the unraveling of the middle class and why that has taken place. The decline of manufacturing in this country--and the decent jobs provided--coupled with increases in costs of living (health care, higher education, etc...) have made it almost impossible to work, save and retire. Plus the machinations in our financial markets (whether we're talking about wall street run amok or tax code changes which have pushed more and more wealth to the top 1% of Americans). These things--which are very hard to see or understand--have vastly more impact than welfare cheats of corrupt union officials (very easy things to spot).
People have a right to be pissed as they've seen their lives get harder without relief in sight. They just don't know who to blame and what to do about it.
I offer no solutions. But odds are that everyone posting on this forum is mostly in the middle on most issues and just wants some degree of fairness and intelligence in how we are governed. My only solution--the two party system has fallen apart and we need to take money/special interests out of the political process.
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