Discussion

Folkstyle

G-R and Freestyle

Teams

Rankings

2019 UWW Senior World Championships
2019 Final X
2019 Junior Greco-Roman National Duals
2019 Junior Boys' Freestyle National Duals
Division changes for 2019-2020 OHSAA Dual Championships
2019 AAU National Duals (Disney Duals)
2019 Yasar Dogu International Tournament
2019 Junior and 16U National Championships (Fargo)
Division changes for 2019-2020 OHSAA Individual Championships

Forum Home

Forum Search

Register

Log in

Log in to check your private messages

Profile

► Add to the Discussion

Page 1, 2  Next

Discussion Topic: Girls HS wrestling -data gathering
Brian Nicola added to this discussion on June 10, 2016

I consider this forum to be highly-knowledgeable wrestling folk. I'm hoping to get some data-driven feedback.

Six states have girls wrestling divisions, and I've been lucky enough to coach 4 girls all-americans and one Asics AA.

Long story short, I was going to start compiling data regarding statewide schools' interest and viability for a separate girls division. There is a ton of data in other states for this; as you would imagine, more girls are interested in competing for a girls team than competing on a boys squad.

Ohio and Pennsylvania, 2 of the 3 toughest wrestling states in the country do not sponsor girls wrestling. Cali, the third "top 3" state has an enormous statewide girls presence
(http://www.cifstate.org/sports/girls_wrestling/handbook/2016_Girls_Wrestling_Program.pdf). 30 colleges sponsor it. Between the states that sponsor it (Cali,Texas, Tennessee, Florida, Hawaii and Michigan) there are 12,000 girls wrestling.

If the data is viable and schools would be interested in pursuing it, I'll probably get a group of statewide coaches together and present it to
OHSAA. This is something I've considered for about a decade but never had time.

If this happened, it is a slow process. However, it is a real option. Imagine if girls were required to play boys basketball, soccer, lacrosse or baseball...how many do you think would even try?

I'll speak bluntly: some of you are completely uninterested or even bothered by this. I'm not asking you if YOU would coach or even go watch...I'm simply asking if you think it is a possibility. There are vast differences between boys and girls hoops, lax, soccer and baseball/softball, yet all these sports are thriving for both genders.

Please take a few minutes to respond.

SURVEY LINK --> http://goo.gl/forms/j9D69QXmD6rOcK3M2

Nothing may come of this. Or, an entire other group of young people get to experience the goods that have shaped so many young men.



Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Girls HS wrestling -data gathering
Dan Harris added to this discussion on June 10, 2016

Isn't women's wrestling in college freestyle? I have wondered if some all girls freestyle opportunities could be made available during the scholastic season. Based on my understanding of the rules, you could wrestle freestyle during the scholastic season for the same reasons that high school coaches can have full contact for freestyle in the off-season since it's considered a different sport.



Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Girls HS wrestling -data gathering
Brian Nicola added to this discussion on June 10, 2016

Yes, college women wrestle FS, mostly due to the competition opportunities with Canadian teams.

Other states with designated girls divisions compete in folkstyle.



Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Girls HS wrestling -data gathering
Ryan Mitchell added to this discussion on June 10, 2016

In the 3 years I spent middle school coaching in Grove City, I had over 20 girls come out for the team. Many of them did not complete the season/or decided to be a stat instead, but there is certainly interest. In 8 years coaching high school, I did not have one girl come out, and only saw 2 other schools have them, but that's been farther in the rear view mirror.
It seems like if it were an option, it would be viable on a much smaller scale, maybe 8-10 weight classes. The girls I coached took it very seriously and it meant a lot to them to be on the team.



Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Girls HS wrestling -data gathering
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on June 11, 2016

i think as things are today when most hs boys dual meets don't draw a crowd, few have JV teams... Girls HS wrestling as a state-sponsored sport has no viability at all in Ohio, even with fewer wt classes.

yes in middle school some girls will come out, in grade school probably even more. But in HS the physical differences become much greater and testosterone-fueled boys seek more combative sports. HS Girls turn to other interests-- sure there are exceptions- but girls turn to less combative, more graceful sports to participate in.



Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Girls HS wrestling -data gathering
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on June 11, 2016

Larry Hoon had several girls a year on his Cleveland Heights wrestling teams including Tina George who went on to have an outstanding career post college. Hoon's assistant, Kip Flanik, took over as head coach at Cleveland's East Tech High school. He didn't have much to work with but managed to entice Toccara Montgomery to try wrestling. She was eventually an Olympian.

If wrestling opportunities for women were made more readily available, they'd wrestle. Obviously, the numbers wouldn't be huge but it would become a viable sport.

Personally, I'd love to see it developed whether it's high school or club level as a freestyle only sport.



Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Girls HS wrestling -data gathering
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on June 11, 2016

Quote from Bob Preusse's post:

"...testosterone-fueled boys seek more combative sports. HS Girls turn to other interests-- sure there are exceptions- but girls turn to less combative, more graceful sports to participate in."



Wow.



Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Girls HS wrestling -data gathering
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on June 11, 2016

yes theres exceptions-- Tina George and T Montgomery obvious ones, after all they were world level, but very rare-- but no it isn't viable as a "state sponsored high school team sport".

if u think it is start a league, show u can put together a league of schools each with a team. That would be the first step in proving the case. Has anyone done that?



Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Girls HS wrestling -data gathering
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on June 11, 2016

The reason to make it an OHSAA sport is for Title 9. But it would work much better as a club sport. the biggest problem with high school wrestling today is that teams are part of their schools. There are far too many weak programs in Ohio. I'd love to see wrestling transition to club level with a self governing body but it's not going to happen any time soon.



Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Girls HS wrestling -data gathering
Ryan Mitchell added to this discussion on June 11, 2016

Quote from Bob Preusse's post:

"i think as things are today when most hs boys dual meets don't draw a crowd, few have JV teams... Girls HS wrestling as a state-sponsored sport has no viability at all in Ohio, even with fewer wt classes."



Perhaps if there were a girls team and they wrestled duals together, the gym would be a bit more full, and interest in both would grow.



Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Girls HS wrestling -data gathering
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on June 11, 2016

Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:

" the biggest problem with high school wrestling today is that teams are part of their schools. There are far too many weak programs in Ohio. I'd love to see wrestling transition to club level with a self governing body but it's not going to happen any time soon."




...that idea would certainly be crushing to high school age wrestling as it would to any other sports who tried to "transition" to strictly "club" status.

...fans support schools, the school of their choice, their alma mater. Who would support a club? Wheres the $ and organization come from?

...if schools don't fund and manage sports many kids will not participate. Kids want to rep their school. My school vs Your school is the bedrock of amateur sports.

...Theres a reason schools value sports. Teachers are often head coaches. Theres ability in a high school sport to instill values & guide young men, to keep kids off the streets.



Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Girls HS wrestling -data gathering
Brian Nicola added to this discussion on June 11, 2016

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm getting some great data via the google forms.



Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Girls HS wrestling -data gathering
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on June 11, 2016

[quote="Bob Preusse"]

Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:

" the biggest problem with high school wrestling today is that teams are part of their schools. There are far too many weak programs in Ohio. I'd love to see wrestling transition to club level with a self governing body but it's not going to happen any time soon."




"...that idea would certainly be crushing to high school age wrestling as it would to any other sports who tried to "transition" to strictly "club" status. "

--Why? You make a statement but offer no support for your comment. I don't agree.

"...fans support schools, the school of their choice, their alma mater. Who would support a club? Wheres the $ and organization come from?"

You don't think people will support a community as opposed to a school? Some schools make athletes pay for participation as it is. Of course, money could be raised. it would be a pain but it's quite possible to accomplish.

"...if schools don't fund and manage sports many kids will not participate. Kids want to rep their school. My school vs Your school is the bedrock of amateur sports."

Wrong again. It's called marketing. It's how you attract kids. Plus, with clubs, grades would no longer be a factor.

"...Theres a reason schools value sports. Teachers are often head coaches. Theres ability in a high school sport to instill values & guide young men, to keep kids off the streets."

Clubs would do the same thing and attract kids from a larger area. Current rules favor privates and schools with open enrollment. This would no longer be the case. Schools would be happy to provide their facilities for practice (in most cases) if they didn't have to fund transportation, pay coaches, etc...

Bob--I have a lot of respect for your intellect but your perspective made more sense in the 50's and 60's than today. World's changing. School dollars getting tighter and tighter as communities reject levies and/or tax bases dwindle. Clubs within a community can be just as popular as schools. I think it's coming and that it has the potential to improve our sport if properly managed.



Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Girls HS wrestling -data gathering
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on June 12, 2016

well i guess we disagree Hank, and thats fine, other approaches are always welcome. Yours is interesting, though i completely disagree on it viability i'm glad u brought it up for evaluation.

yes i think sports are an important part of high school curriculum, esp in this era of broken homes, fatherless homes and bad influences.

i don't think your proposal can replace all the good high school wrestling does now. Nor do i think your proposal is realistically going to get off the ground. ...Its pie in the sky imo.

but i'm not a coach so what do i know? nothing maybe.

However i can tell readers that in 20 some years of writing for Amateur Wrestling News every coach i have interviewed thinks high school wresting is important. No coach has ever told me "We need to disband this, its not working, let's go to a clubs only scenario".

**BTW u mentioned levies not getting passed. If u think they don't get passed often now just get rid of all high school sports and you will find they pass a lot less. Guaranteed. ...s/BobP



Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Girls HS wrestling -data gathering
Brian Nicola added to this discussion on June 12, 2016

Quote from Bob Preusse's post:

"But in HS the physical differences become much greater and testosterone-fueled boys seek more combative sports. HS Girls turn to other interests-- sure there are exceptions- but girls turn to less combative, more graceful sports to participate in."



I'm not sure I agree with this as the "why" most boys wrestle. One of my respondents stated it best: "Some girls have it in their soul, just like guys, the need to express themselves through grappling. It's time."

I think it reflects on the mental toughness and personality of individuals much more than the testosterone. If I'm correct, then that shouldn't reflect the interest too much.

I'm not a PC-focused guy trying to say males and females are always the same (they're not)...but I do think this sport could be easily transitioned over to having a girls side. It's a competition and "drive" thing, not an aggression thing.

At least that's my opinion.

On the opinion of club vs. high school teams, though, I'll agree with Bob P. IMO, there's something special about wearing your school colors and the name on the front.



Add to the discussion and quote this      

► Add to the Discussion

Page 1, 2  Next