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Discussion Topic: Skipping jr high wrestling...good or bad
Jared Ball added to this discussion on April 20, 2016

I've noticed, at least in my neck of the woods, more and more youth wrestlers skipping jr high competition in favor of training with club level teams or trainers. I don't believe its a wide spread concern yet, but with the growing concern of participation I can't help but feel that this is a negative thing for our sport. From an individual perspective I understand the desire to seek out and train in the best room possible, and a jr high room doesn't always provide this. From a coaching perspective I hate it. I think it destroys the growth process of your future teams. Think about how great wrestlers help those around them improve, and ultimately build up the team. That's two lost years in a crucial developmental period. Your thoughts?



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Discussion Topic: Skipping jr high wrestling...good or bad
Carl Amerine added to this discussion on April 20, 2016

I see both sides here. There is such a focus on specializing in one sport at a young age that I doubt the situation leads to higher participation on the junior high school teams. A bigger name/experienced coach in the junior high programs to attract the high caliber kids might work. I've officiated several middle school tourneys and duals and the talent level is all the place. How much good does it do a kid to work with his junior high team if he's not facing equal competition in practice or the meets.



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Discussion Topic: Skipping jr high wrestling...good or bad
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on April 20, 2016

I fall on the side of representing one's school in the area of athletic participation. I'm sure that's a throwback to the 30s & 40s but it's where my heart is.



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Discussion Topic: Skipping jr high wrestling...good or bad
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on April 20, 2016

Quote from Mark Niemann's post:

"I fall on the side of representing one's school in the area of athletic participation. I'm sure that's a throwback to the 30s & 40s but it's where my heart is."



I agree; and 6th Grade was the best 3 years of my life...



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Discussion Topic: Skipping jr high wrestling...good or bad
Dan Strope added to this discussion on April 21, 2016

Quote from Mark Niemann's post:

"I fall on the side of representing one's school in the area of athletic participation. I'm sure that's a throwback to the 30s & 40s but it's where my heart is."



Totally agree BUT the school also has an obligation to provide competent guidance and that usually isn't the case or their priority. More often than not, the junior high programs are an after thought and any willing body gets thrown in there "to coach". I will never understand the logic of loading up a high school staff only to totally neglect its feeder program but my experience has shown it to be more the norm than the exception.



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Discussion Topic: Skipping jr high wrestling...good or bad
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on April 21, 2016

Quote from Dan Strope's post:

"Totally agree BUT the school also has an obligation to provide competent guidance and that usually isn't the case or their priority. More often than not, the junior high programs are an after thought and any willing body gets thrown in there "to coach". I will never understand the logic of loading up a high school staff only to totally neglect its feeder program but my experience has shown it to be more the norm than the exception."



Dan -- in the best programs, this isn't the case. My advice to beginning coaches is to put time and priority into your little kids coaches and jr. high coaches -- if you do that well, you'll look like a great coach because the product you get entering HS will be so much better.



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Discussion Topic: Skipping jr high wrestling...good or bad
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on April 21, 2016

Interesting topic.

We have a decent youth program in Shaker and hope to grow it. But the big issue is the middle school. The practice facility is terrible and the AD is LAZY. It's been a revolving door in terms of coaches. Bottom line is that kids with wrestling experience quit at this level because it's a terrible situation. A lot of kids stop wrestling at this age anyway but a terrible middle school program makes it easy.

I've suggested to Will Knight (high school coach) that we expand the youth club to encompass middle school and set up a schedule. But if we do it, we risk losing the middle school program forever. While that's probably best, it's still risky because you're giving something up you'll never get back.

Ideally, you have a good middle school program and have your youth kids move into it. But when it doesn't exist, you need an alternative and club wrestling provides it.

Hate to say it but for most programs these days, you want at least 6 kids per grade with wrestling experience. That puts your high school program at 20-25 kids which is a solid number. You wrestle your duals, train for tourneys and get ready for the end of the season. That's what it has become.



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Discussion Topic: Skipping jr high wrestling...good or bad
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on April 21, 2016

Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:

"

Quote from Dan Strope's post:

"Totally agree BUT the school also has an obligation to provide competent guidance and that usually isn't the case or their priority. More often than not, the junior high programs are an after thought and any willing body gets thrown in there "to coach". I will never understand the logic of loading up a high school staff only to totally neglect its feeder program but my experience has shown it to be more the norm than the exception."



Dan -- in the best programs, this isn't the case. My advice to beginning coaches is to put time and priority into your little kids coaches and jr. high coaches -- if you do that well, you'll look like a great coach because the product you get entering HS will be so much better."



Brady, not at all mitigating what an awesome coach you are, just interested in your opinion:

What part does the community demographic play in this?

Mechanicsburg feels "right" in regard to a community perspective that lends itself toward attributes that are conducive to wrestling like commitment, work ethic, loyalty, etc.



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Discussion Topic: Skipping jr high wrestling...good or bad
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on April 23, 2016

Community Demographics always play a part -- in making it easier or harder -- in building a program, but neither guarantee a great program without the right pieces in place.

Mechancisburg is a great fit for a wrestling team. Hard working, blue collar town -- filled with kids that like to scrap. Add in that mix a football coach who, despite being a basketball player in high school, absolutely loves what wrestling is doing for his team. No surprise that the rise of the wrestling program was followed quickly by the rise of the football program -- and we just keep feeding off one another.



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Discussion Topic: Skipping jr high wrestling...good or bad
Dan Strope added to this discussion on April 24, 2016

Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:

"Community Demographics always play a part -- in making it easier or harder -- in building a program, but neither guarantee a great program without the right pieces in place.

Mechancisburg is a great fit for a wrestling team. Hard working, blue collar town -- filled with kids that like to scrap. Add in that mix a football coach who, despite being a basketball player in high school, absolutely loves what wrestling is doing for his team. No surprise that the rise of the wrestling program was followed quickly by the rise of the football program -- and we just keep feeding off one another."




Would you consider the proximity to Jordan's and Miron's one of the right pieces in place?



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Discussion Topic: Skipping jr high wrestling...good or bad
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on April 24, 2016

[quote="Dan Strope"Would you consider the proximity to Jordan's and Miron's one of the right pieces in place?[/quote]

Yes and no. Yes in that they provided places for the guys to train and no doubt they played a role in the development of some of the guys but they weren't the only ones. Guys traveled farther to go to Prodigy and over last 5 yrs or so, also headed to TeamMafia to train as well.

No in that other schools in our area had that same proximity but are stuck the swamp of mediocrity or worse so proximity alone isn't a game changer.

Kids have to buy in and believe and I was fortunate to have guys early on believe -- and they inspired kids on the team today to believe also.



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Discussion Topic: Skipping jr high wrestling...good or bad
Mike Mattin added to this discussion on April 24, 2016

Great topic.

As a father of 4 boys that wrestle I struggle with this one. The rules that the JH programs must live by really do make it very tempting to wrestle for a club team rather than your community team.

If they wrestle for their school they can't wrestle any open tournaments from the first day of the JH season (Early November) until early February. This requires them to miss some very high quality tournaments such as Tulsa Nationals, VAC duals, etc.... You add to this the very poor competition that exists in the school programs and I couldn't fault anyone for not wrestling with their school.

That being said I have had my oldest 3 participate with the school program due to other reasons than simply the matches. I also run the youth program so I feel it is best to send my children to the same program as their friends and the one's they have practiced with since they started the sport.

IMO, PA has it correct. They allow wrestlers to compete with their school but they are also allowed to wrestle in open tournaments if they so choose.

Mike Mattin



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Discussion Topic: Skipping jr high wrestling...good or bad
Dan Ransick added to this discussion on April 25, 2016

My little guy is just turning 8 and we've already left the local kids club that I was running and went to the private club. Not only is the level of coaching far superior than I could give to him but the level of competition in the room is second to none. I also think it depends on the support you get and the kids that are willing to put in the time. I was not getting that

As of right now I won't let him do the school program. In this part of the state the training is a step back and the dedication given to the program is not where it needs to be.



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Discussion Topic: Skipping jr high wrestling...good or bad
Dan Strope added to this discussion on April 25, 2016

Quote from Dan Ransick's post:

"My little guy is just turning 8 and we've already left the local kids club that I was running and went to the private club. Not only is the level of coaching far superior than I could give to him but the level of competition in the room is second to none. I also think it depends on the support you get and the kids that are willing to put in the time. I was not getting that

As of right now I won't let him do the school program. In this part of the state the training is a step back and the dedication given to the program is not where it needs to be."



All great responses to a question that rivals Ginger or Mariann?

I agree with Mike in that PA has the right idea, just let them do both. Not sure why that is an issue with OHSAA.

Dan,

Aren't you concerned that you have just a short term solution? What about in season work out partners as he approaches junior high or even high school? You must be knowledgeable since you ran a local club. Did you ever consider that investing and developing local kids/talent would be a long term benefit to your own kid?



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Discussion Topic: Skipping jr high wrestling...good or bad
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on April 25, 2016

Quote from Dan Strope's post:

" All great responses to a question that rivals Ginger or Mariann?"



Mariann.



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