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Discussion Topic: National Title Run
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on February 6, 2016
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Luke-- Hank & MikeR took a sledgehammer to this "dead horse", now u r driving a tractor over him... lol, oh well if u insist i will throw dirt on him too. i present Requiem for the "RS-a-must theory".
(Mr) John DiJulius posted on this forum yesterday or the day before that we should put our best team on the mat. And that when those moves were made more had a right to be expected out of the 4 Senior starters but none of them are having the year expected- yet.
so far did RS help our 4 Senior starters, did longevity in the program guarantee Senior success? 3 of the 4 Seniors did RS. Things can & often do happen by the time you're in your 4 or 5th year: Burnout, Injuries, not as gung ho anymore, an athlete can hit the wall & just not have anymore to give.
yesterday i saw 4 Senior starters- 3 of whom RSed - not able to help... i saw Young guys carrying the Ohio st team. Myles Martin looked good for most of the match vs # 1, he made one mistake. Micah looked great. Snyder interview revealed he WANTS to be out there so why shouldnt he be?
put the tractor back in the barn, gentlemen.
... u may RIP Mr. Steed
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Discussion Topic: National Title Run
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 6, 2016
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The coaching staff chose to redshirt Bo, Nate and Hunter two years ago even though they were better than the wrestlers who started in order to build for a title run.
Obviously, one can't say you always start the best guys.
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Discussion Topic: National Title Run
Matt Mace added to this discussion on February 6, 2016
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I remember reading an article about Mark Shapiro or John Hart (Indians' GM) about how their goal was to put all the pieces in place to hit on all cylinders a few years out. They don't have the luxury of going after a title every year that the NY Yankees did. They needed the right mix of farm bred talent and big money free agents to work out in a small window of a season or two. If it doesn't work out, you almost have to start over on another 5 year plan.
While NCAA wrestling doesn't have the intricacies of MLB, each season presents different logic. Having a redshirt rule is not good management. Even if a kid is ready to compete right away doesn't mean he should start right away. Alternatively, even if a kid could really use a RS to develop more, doesn't mean he should be redshirted in all cases.
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Discussion Topic: National Title Run
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 6, 2016
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Quote from Matt Mace's post:
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"I remember reading an article about Mark Shapiro or John Hart (Indians' GM) about how their goal was to put all the pieces in place to hit on all cylinders a few years out. They don't have the luxury of going after a title every year that the NY Yankees did. They needed the right mix of farm bred talent and big money free agents to work out in a small window of a season or two. If it doesn't work out, you almost have to start over on another 5 year plan.
While NCAA wrestling doesn't have the intricacies of MLB, each season presents different logic. Having a redshirt rule is not good management. Even if a kid is ready to compete right away doesn't mean he should start right away. Alternatively, even if a kid could really use a RS to develop more, doesn't mean he should be redshirted in all cases."
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Agree.
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Discussion Topic: National Title Run
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on February 6, 2016
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Mr Preusse...when you talk about Ohio State's four seniors, are you talking about 133, 149, 184 and 197? If so, it's hardly an argument against red-shirting. It's a push at best. Stieber's injury is catostrophic and could never have been planned for. Also, his red-shirt season is what is giving him any chance (albeit a small one) of finishing his career on an individual high note. Without the redshirt, last year's NCAAs would have ended his career.
As for the other three, they have all been roughly the same wrestler for the past four-plus years. While you can certainly say the redshirt didn't help them (and I can't argue with you), it clearly didn't hurt them either. And, like Stieber, they each get one last shot to make a run (although Courts could've ended on the high note of last year's AA). I bet if you ask the four seniors, they're happy they have this season to try to make the podium.
Also, if you look at each off their Penn State counterparts, red-shirts abound.
I want to be clear, I don't think red-shirts are a cure-all. I think they are, more often than not, the right thing to do for true freshmen. There are numerous examples of true freshmen being successful. I understand that. I just think there are far more examples of wrestlers having successful fifth years. I'm sure there are official stats on that (tru-frosh AAs vs fifth year AAs), but I'm not in the mood to do the research.
Another point I want to be clear on, I think Coach Ryan is a great coach and the right man for the job at tOSU. A difference of opinion on this issue doesn't make him a bad coach or a bad guy.
Finally, I know Im the one who called it a "dead horse" topic, but if you look at the Buckeyes this year, it's the big thing that's happened. It's tied to Jordan's move to 165 and the teams chances at repeating. The fact that it's being discussed on a forum that focuses on NCAA and particularly Ohio State wrestling doesn't seem like a stretch. It's a forum, that's what people do here.
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Discussion Topic: National Title Run
David Rourke added to this discussion on February 7, 2016
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Quote from Jeff Reid's post:
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"My biggest question about Bo and Micah is why don't they have a standup? Both just look really uncomfortable on the bottom. I don't know why they even choose down. They should choose neutral every time and get it done on their feet."
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Bo has a great long sit-out. which is how he got out last night as well as against Issac in the B16 tens last year. It works for him. Why he waits so long to try it is the question??
JDJ on bottom???
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Discussion Topic: National Title Run
Jack Muni added to this discussion on February 7, 2016
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I've watched JDJ on bottom. He will ball up and start grasping for control of his opponents hands, and once he has them then he will start coming up and out. But where he gets in trouble is if the opponent throws a leg in and flattens him out. Then he struggles to get lose. Conaway got the figure four around JDJ leg and turk rode him, nearly turning him several times. Only his flexibility saved him.
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Discussion Topic: National Title Run
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on February 7, 2016
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"Mr Preusse...when you talk about Ohio State's four seniors, are you talking about 133, 149, 184 and 197? If so, it's hardly an argument against red-shirting.
Finally, I know Im the one who called it a "dead horse" topic, ."
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MikeR yes u are the one who called it a "dead horse" topic.
yes i clearly stated i was talking about ohio states 4 Starting (when healthy) seniors. And i made No argument against RS carte blanche... i merely pointed out it doesnt always work, it doesnt prevent injury & burnout... that longevity in program no guarantee of success, can lead to burnout & inj. In fact i quote myself:
"so far did RS help our 4 Senior starters, did longevity in the program guarantee Senior success? 3 of the 4 Seniors did RS. Things can & often do happen by the time you're in your 4 or 5th year: Burnout, Injuries, not as gung ho anymore, an athlete can hit the wall & just not have anymore to give."
my premise is a wrestler starts when he is mentally & physically ready to win, and academically sound, if coach & team needs him --and coach deems it the right time. ...imo Ryan doing great job, Ryan & staff in best position to make those decisions, i trust them based on their tenure here. ...s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: National Title Run
Luke Moore added to this discussion on February 7, 2016
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To be clear, the jury is still out on this topic and the pieces could still come together. Also, Coach Ryan has done so many good things and is such a good man, it is almost insane to question him and his staff.
My hesitance on this topic hinges on one thing: Kyle Snyder! Would OSU winning a title be worth costing him an Olympic gold medal? Does this hurt his preparation? I truly don't know and certainly hope not! But man, I hope he can repeat his world performance!
The other issues, while I may not agree 100% with, are a far less dire argument/topic!
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Discussion Topic: National Title Run
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on February 8, 2016
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Quote from Luke Moore's post:
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"My hesitance on this topic hinges on one thing: Kyle Snyder! Would OSU winning a title be worth costing him an Olympic gold medal? Does this hurt his preparation? "
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if u saw his interview following Penn st dual, Snyder believes his decision serves him best, he seemed happy-- so why are outsiders questioning it?
possibly he doesnt win olympic gold, regardless. How many Americans have won olympic gold? always a long shot unless youve done it already like Burroughs has.
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