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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Ryan Mitchell added to this discussion on February 2, 2016
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Shameless plug here. I got to sit down with Tom Ryan for the Rudis Wrestling Report on Time Warner Cable Sports Channel and asked him a little about this. There was too much to cover and too little time, but he gives some insight into the situation. It airs tomorrow night at 10:00pm channel 1311 on Time Warner. Also talked with Jeff Jordan about why the Graham/Wyoming Seminary dual for the "National Championship" is no longer happening.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Jason Russell added to this discussion on February 2, 2016
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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I'm hearing a very different story...but regardless, even if that was his overall attitude, sometimes you have to save a kid from himself. I believe Bo Jordan is a strong favorite at 174. I believe he is a heavy underdog at 165. 3X champs are rare. I think you put Jordan where he has the best chance to win. That is my philosophy. I'm not a very good coach though, so I could be totally wrong."
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Mike, I do agree with you on this one. A buddy of mine who coaching at Messiah college recently ran into the same problem with a 3x AA who is cutting a lot of weight to 74. Kid wanted to stay down, his coach is making him bump up. He looked great at 84 this past weekend, a crushed the #7 ranked kid in d2 (which actually clinched the tournament for my warhawks :)). Sometimes a coach does have to pull the plug.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Mark Cummings added to this discussion on February 2, 2016
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Ryan, will that interview be available for view over the internet. I don't live in Ohio or have Time Warner cable.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 2, 2016
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Biting my lip...biting my lip...bleeding profusely from my lip....
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on February 2, 2016
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Sean Koran added to this discussion on February 2, 2016
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The red-shirting decision is difficult and in most cases I don't think there is necessarily a right or wrong answer.
If you've got a stud freshman coming in and a stud returner at the weight, then the decision is easy.
I think the decision is also easy if the freshman wrestler is simply not ready to compete in a meaningful way (i.e., strong potential to AA when dealing with a top level program).
Otherwise, it's tough.
I think a coach has both a duty to his individual wrestlers to maximize their results, but also to the team and university as a whole. It is quite easy to continually take the "wait until next year approach," but at some point you need to maximize the best team you can put out there and go for it.
With only 9.9 scholarships, this can often result in one or two of your best wrestlers being true freshmen. If the coach believes they are ready to compete and no promises were made that they would 100% redshirt, I see no problem putting the freshman in the lineup.
Sure, sometimes it may not work out. See Colt Sponseller. It's easy to sit here and say that he should have redshirted and likely would have another AA to his name. But at the time OSU was in the hunt for 2nd place at NCAAs (which they achieved by a couple points) and it sure seemed like Colt could/would help them get there, going undefeated before a disaster B1G tournament.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, you have someone like Hunter. If he would have redshirted his freshman year that AA would be gone. That win over Kellen Russell would be gone. In exchange for this season, which, sadly, doesn't look like it will amount to much (fingers crossed that is not the case). And, of course, he did redshirt his junior year. So in his case, the reshirt took him from a three time AA (and perhaps national title) to a two time AA and cost the team a top 5 finish in 2014.
As for Snyder, they way I see it at this point is that any match he wrestles for OSU is a blessing. No need to count on him being here in three years, let alone any future year. OSU has put in plan in place that he and his family agreed to and works for him while still helping the university he loves. This move should have been made regardless of Hunter's health or Myles' willingness to come out of redshirt. And, what if Snyder had redshirted last year? Heck, he may have won the world title, decided take an Oly redshirt this year, and never wrestle a match for the school.
Next year this discussion will occur with Pletcher and White. And my position will be the same. OSU will have a strong team and it seems likely that these two may be able to make even stronger. If that is indeed the case, then they should wrestle.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Ryan Mitchell added to this discussion on February 2, 2016
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Quote from Mark Cummings's post:
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"Ryan, will that interview be available for view over the internet. I don't live in Ohio or have Time Warner cable."
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Mark, I'm not sure how much content they make available online. Maybe keep an eye out here: http://www.twcsportschannel.com/oh/midohio or on their twitter handle to see what they post.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on February 2, 2016
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"Biting my lip...biting my lip...bleeding profusely from my lip...."
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Don't do it, Hank. You gotta set the example as SAC...
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on February 2, 2016
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Quote from Dwight LeRoy's post:
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Quote from Justin Hayes's post:
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Walking a thin line occupationally, "Dwight from State Farm"...keep it up and you'll lose your gig as TR's "Body Man". Jus' Sayin'."
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Occupationally speaking, I'm good so I can afford to lose the "Dwight from State Farm" gig. Justin, you can be promoted to "Justin from State Farm", sounds right, no?"
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My official Dot.Net responsibilities include:
Spokes Model
Thread Starter
Alpha Monkeyshine Pot Stirrer
Brother's Keeper (Niemann) and....
Lead Statement Analyst (which makes the "no?" at the end of your quote particularly noteworthy in taking a step closer to identification; you might as well of put, "eh?").
Obviously, I'm too busy to be TR's "Body Man"...but I guarantee Niemann would gleefully embrace the role if you ever need a replacement! :)
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Roe Fox added to this discussion on February 3, 2016
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I really enjoy reading this for him and contributing occasionally. The comments made on this topic are very insightful.
What I don't understand is why some of the commentary seems to be bleeding into a personal disparagement of Tom Ryan, including references to putting his goals as a head coach above the individual.
Whether you agree with what they are doing is different than whether you can applaud the process. What is clear is that Ryan came up with some of these ideas, discussed them with the wrestlers and their families, and they made joint decisions. With respect to Snyder, it's certainly a sticky outside of the box during an Olympic year.
As for MyMar, he certainly has shown to be competitive against some top-tier opponents, despite the off night against Purdue.
And while this plan will be more successful with a healthy Hunter Steber, it must look tempting to move Micah up to 149 and pull Keyshawn's redshirt with the excellent results he's been getting this year and the unfortunate results for Hunter so far. I think Someone indicated last year that Keyshawn wanted a redshirt. They have certainly honor that request.
Finally, I fully understand the comments about some wrestlers needing a redshirt to grow into being college athletes;, however if you feel you are able to compete why in the world would you want to sit on the bench?
Life is short. You never know what tomorrow brings. Everyone who posts on this website knows how competitive wrestlers are and these guys want to compete.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Alex Creech added to this discussion on February 3, 2016
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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What I don't understand is why some of the commentary seems to be bleeding into a personal disparagement of Tom Ryan, including references to putting his goals as a head coach above the individual. "
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Ditto
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 3, 2016
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Roe: Very good questions. I'm going to tell a quick story as a bit of an allegory. You and others can decide how applicable it is...or isn't.
One year I was preparing my team to wrestle Mentor High School. I worked out the probable match-ups on paper and concluded that we had a shot. Odds were long but better than at any other time we'd wrestled them. Since they were always one of the best dual teams in the area and we'd never beaten them, it was a big deal to me.
Well, my 130 pounder didn't make weight. He was a talented kid but undisciplined and at that moment I saw our chance for a win unravel. So, I made a rash decision. Rather than sit him for failing to make weight--which is what the team expected based on what I'd always told them--I pushed him to 135. Then I moved my 135 to 140. Then I yanked my 140 from the lineup. He was terrible and almost certain to get pinned. We all knew it. But at that moment I'd put winning the dual above the rules I'd put in place for the team. Every kid in that room knew it. I could rationalize it all I wanted. But I'd always been clear to the kids about the importance of making weight and what the outcome would be for failure to do so. Now...I was a hypocrite.
I think that it's more important to keep your word than to win. I think you win the larger battle when you do so.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Shawn Andrews added to this discussion on February 3, 2016
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As a fan, not a coach I wanted to see BoJo at 174 I thought he was a sure fire chammp. That doesn't mean he can't win at 165 and I appreciate what have some have dubbed his vision quest. Because of that opinion as a fan I was in favor of keeping MyMar in redshirt or moving courts up and inserting MyMar at 184. Give MarkMar the chance to reshirt especially since it was clear that Snyder will not see 197 again.
The flip side of that is to look at what we see at 149 right now. Hunter Stieber is a warrior, an amazing wrestler and great human being. However he is evidence that good or bad you don't know what the future holds. There was a time in which red-shirt was for medical purposes only. Is it worth considering putting the best guy out there True Freshman or not because you don't know there 5 year path. The elite guys are generally coming in with more "miles" on their body because of the high level of competition at an early age.
I don't know if anything I just typed has a thought that the rest of you can follow but I keep going back forth on what I think as a fan.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on February 3, 2016
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"Roe: Very good questions. I'm going to tell a quick story as a bit of an allegory. You and others can decide how applicable it is...or isn't.
One year I was preparing my team to wrestle Mentor High School. I worked out the probable match-ups on paper and concluded that we had a shot. Odds were long but better than at any other time we'd wrestled them. Since they were always one of the best dual teams in the area and we'd never beaten them, it was a big deal to me.
Well, my 130 pounder didn't make weight. He was a talented kid but undisciplined and at that moment I saw our chance for a win unravel. So, I made a rash decision. Rather than sit him for failing to make weight--which is what the team expected based on what I'd always told them--I pushed him to 135. Then I moved my 135 to 140. Then I yanked my 140 from the lineup. He was terrible and almost certain to get pinned. We all knew it. But at that moment I'd put winning the dual above the rules I'd put in place for the team. Every kid in that room knew it. I could rationalize it all I wanted. But I'd always been clear to the kids about the importance of making weight and what the outcome would be for failure to do so. Now...I was a hypocrite.
I think that it's more important to keep your word than to win. I think you win the larger battle when you do so."
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I don't think this fits here because that was on the spot decision you had to make and if you would have had a month or two to think about it maybe you would of made a different decision. Did you ask the team what you should do?
Your last statement about its more important to keep your word then to win make me believe you think Coach Ryan didn't keep is word to Bo, Myles or Kyle. Which I don't think is the case. From all accounts coach Ryan talked with everyone of those guys and their families and they came to a decision together.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Mike Stann added to this discussion on February 3, 2016
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James, I'm not so sure they are different. Myles and Kyle had a plan. Myles wanted to redshirt and Kyle wanted an Olympic redshirt at least that's what I seemed to read everywhere. The plan was obviously changed. Maybe not spur of the moment like Hank but it was changed. I loved the plan with kyle redshirting because I thought it sent the right message to other wrestlers who wrestle for Tom or those considering coming. As much as it pains me to say after watching Hunter wrestle I don't know why they changed especially with Myles. One need only look at Penn St. last year. We might (I said might) not have raised the trophy had they changed their plan to redshirt Zain, Nico, Nolf and Nickals. But they stuck to their plan and look how it has paid off this year and probably next. Last I don't read the remarks on this subject as being disparaging to Tom. Everyone makes mistakes and i think we are just having a discussion about whether this is one or not. We won't really know until all the results are in will we?
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