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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on February 1, 2016
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imo, the idea is to compete every year, not concede. Yes on paper Ohio st underdog, maybe to Okla st too.
However one of the first things i learned in sports is that the best team doesnt always win, shittt happens, luck good & bad can intervene. Stay close, keep the heat on and maybe good fortune comes your way.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on February 1, 2016
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I agree that crazy stuff happens, but at this point, that's what Ohio State fans are counting on, something crazy happening...People magically getting 7-10 points better in a month, or guys switching weight classes mid-season and crushing it. Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? No. Coach Ryan has done amazing things here at tOSU. He's the right guy for the job and I'm sure there are more titles in his future, but he messed this one up.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on February 1, 2016
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WIN mags Tourn Power Idex just out has Ohio St 4th but virtually in a tie for 3rd with Iowa. Well behind Penn st and Okla st too.
However Third gets a trophy. I believe until Ryan, RussH had 1 third and no one else in buckeye history had a finish that high.
So 3rd not to be dismissed lightly, would be great achievement. I was there when RussH got his 3rd and i can tell u he was ELATED beyond words, Albany i think. ...s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on February 1, 2016
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"WIN mags Tourn Power Idex just out has Ohio St 4th but virtually in a tie for 3rd with Iowa. Well behind Penn st and Okla st too.
However Third gets a trophy. I believe until Ryan, RussH had 1 third and no one else in buckeye history had a finish that high.
So 3rd not to be dismissed lightly, would be great achievement. I was there when RussH got his 3rd and i can tell u he was ELATED beyond words, Albany i think. ...s/BobP"
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I was there too, and he didn't pull red-shirts...Olympic or otherwise. Buckeye fans need to be honest about why this move was made. It was made because Hunter Stieber was looking great and going to All American and with those points, bringing Snyder back and pulling Martin's red-shirt gave you a shot at the title. No one would have made those moves for third place.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on February 1, 2016
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"WIN mags Tourn Power Idex just out has Ohio St 4th but virtually in a tie for 3rd with Iowa. Well behind Penn st and Okla st too.
However Third gets a trophy. I believe until Ryan, RussH had 1 third and no one else in buckeye history had a finish that high.
So 3rd not to be dismissed lightly, would be great achievement. I was there when RussH got his 3rd and i can tell u he was ELATED beyond words, Albany i think. ...s/BobP"
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I was there too, and he didn't pull red-shirts...Olympic or otherwise. Buckeye fans need to be honest about why this move was made. It was made because Hunter Stieber was looking great and going to All American and with those points, bringing Snyder back and pulling Martin's red-shirt gave you a shot at the title. No one would have made those moves for third place."
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u miss my point-- 3rd is to be very proud of, u rarely win titles but competing, not conceding, is my preferance.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 1, 2016
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I've been drinking from the same cup as M-Rod. I'm just shocked he's saying it. I didn't think anyone had the balls. Good for you Mike.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Brian Mathews added to this discussion on February 1, 2016
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"WIN mags Tourn Power Idex just out has Ohio St 4th but virtually in a tie for 3rd with Iowa. Well behind Penn st and Okla st too.
However Third gets a trophy. I believe until Ryan, RussH had 1 third and no one else in buckeye history had a finish that high.
So 3rd not to be dismissed lightly, would be great achievement. I was there when RussH got his 3rd and i can tell u he was ELATED beyond words, Albany i think. ...s/BobP"
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I was there too, and he didn't pull red-shirts...Olympic or otherwise. Buckeye fans need to be honest about why this move was made. It was made because Hunter Stieber was looking great and going to All American and with those points, bringing Snyder back and pulling Martin's red-shirt gave you a shot at the title. No one would have made those moves for third place."
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Are we already conceding the team title? I haven't seen compelling evidence that PSU or Ok. State have it locked up yet. In my view, Ohio State has a decent chance to at least match last year's point total (which was right around 100 I think), even with Hunter scoring 0 points.
There's no way the decision to pull Kyle and Myles' redshirts hinged upon an expectation of Hunter making the podium. If that was a major factor in the decision, Ryan deserves any and all of the criticism that you could throw his way.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on February 1, 2016
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"I've been drinking from the same cup as M-Rod. I'm just shocked he's saying it. I didn't think anyone had the balls. Good for you Mike."
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Hank, shocked? u & Mike been saying same thing for a couple months, this not new, previously debated at length, your positions well known. Thats why on page 1 this thread today Mike called it a "dead horse":
"Not to beat a dead horse, but this is what red-shirts were burned for?...to move up (maybe???) a couple of spaces on the NCAA leader board and not come close to the title? It was a bad call."
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Mike Stann added to this discussion on February 1, 2016
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I think we have two camps of thought here. The first is the camp that believes wrestling is really an individual sport and is not like football and basketball in that regard. I think that those folks feel that if you take care of your kids they will take care of you. You go all out to maximize your charges chances of success knowing if you nurture champs you will get more kids wanting to come to your program. Your success is measured by the success of your kids. Since dual meets (in today's world) are really no more that preseason games they should be used as such. The goal is to get enough kids to enjoy success that team championships follow.
The other camp feels that the sport is about good ole u. (tOSU, PSU, IOWA OSU ETC.) This camp thinks that you do whatever is necessary to maximize the team's changes of success. Every dual meet is important because it's your team against theirs. So individual success takes back seat to team success. You are measured by how the team does. The goal here is to have team success which then brings more kids to your program.
I think this is why we can have this discussion, look at the same facts and come to different conclusions. I'm one of those from the first camp. I think it is still too early to call but I sure do lean towards hank and mike's view. Myles may AA or even win it all and Kyle might win both an NCAA championship and a medal at the Olympics. That would make it pretty hard to argue that the decisions didn't benefit the kids. It also could be that four years down the road we might be wishing we hadn't burned Myles redshirt. Just my thoughts. No hard feelings I hope also. I love this forum because it seems we can discuss contentious issues without rancor unlike some other boards I read (would never want to post on them).
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on February 1, 2016
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theres a 3rd camp Mike, i'm in the 3rd camp, whats best for kids AND team.
If a frosh is ready he should wrestle now-- cant wait for 5th year, by then a kid might be burned out, lost his love for the sport, accumlated injuries or just had enough.
If u r ready as a true frosh, your time is now. True frosh are AAing with regularity in recent years, its not like it was years before, the best kids come ready right now.
i had this very point made to me by Penn states first 4xAA Greg Elinsky this past saturday over at st Eds, talked to him at length at social afterwards and this came up. For a variety of reasons the best kids are ready sooner nowadays than in previous times.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Alex Creech added to this discussion on February 1, 2016
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"Not to beat a dead horse, but this is what red-shirts were burned for?...to move up (maybe???) a couple of spaces on the NCAA leader board and not come close to the title? It was a bad call."
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someone's a little bitter these days.......
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Dwight LeRoy added to this discussion on February 1, 2016
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"WIN mags Tourn Power Idex just out has Ohio St 4th but virtually in a tie for 3rd with Iowa. Well behind Penn st and Okla st too.
However Third gets a trophy. I believe until Ryan, RussH had 1 third and no one else in buckeye history had a finish that high.
So 3rd not to be dismissed lightly, would be great achievement. I was there when RussH got his 3rd and i can tell u he was ELATED beyond words, Albany i think. ...s/BobP"
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I was there too, and he didn't pull red-shirts...Olympic or otherwise. Buckeye fans need to be honest about why this move was made. It was made because Hunter Stieber was looking great and going to All American and with those points, bringing Snyder back and pulling Martin's red-shirt gave you a shot at the title. No one would have made those moves for third place."
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Let's assume that your your post is correct, I wonder how Tom Ryan came to the conclusion that Hunter Stieber was looking great. If your talking about his recovery, I see your point but he recovering and competing is 2 different things.
I was never a fan of pulling Myles Martin redshirt for a couple of reason but the main one is the Hunter Stieber situation. It seemed like alot of what ifs more than concrete evidence to support the decision.
I hope it all works out for the tOSU but I can't imagine placing 2-4 was the plan when Tom Ryan put this plan in motion.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on February 1, 2016
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Quote from Alex Creech's post:
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"
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"Not to beat a dead horse, but this is what red-shirts were burned for?...to move up (maybe???) a couple of spaces on the NCAA leader board and not come close to the title? It was a bad call."
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someone's a little bitter these days......."
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We're working on it; he's making great strides toward considering becoming Thankful Runner-Up. :)
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Doug Brandt added to this discussion on February 1, 2016
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"theres a 3rd camp Mike, i'm in the 3rd camp, whats best for kids AND team.
If a frosh is ready he should wrestle now-- cant wait for 5th year, by then a kid might be burned out, lost his love for the sport, accumlated injuries or just had enough.
If u r ready as a true frosh, your time is now. True frosh are AAing with regularity in recent years, its not like it was years before, the best kids come ready right now.
i had this very point made to me by Penn states first 4xAA Greg Elinsky this past saturday over at st Eds, talked to him at length at social afterwards and this came up. For a variety of reasons the best kids are ready sooner nowadays than in previous times."
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Today's true frosh are, for the most part, hardened veterans by the time they hit the college ranks. They've competed in hundreds of matches- year 'round.
They've got so many more matches under their belts than high school kids did not so many years ago.
That says two things to me:
1) They come in with more experience
2) They can potentially wear out quicker in college, mentally and physically, due to the accumulated punishment of all those extra matches.
Tom Ryan is getting painted by some here as a guy who is more interested in collecting team titles than a guy who has the best interest of his wrestlers at heart.
He would be deeply offended. He loves those guys. I've been to the practices.
I'm a third camp guy, like Bob. You can do what's best for the team and the wrestler. These guys were born and bred to compete. Some are ready; some are not.
No one is forcing anyone out of redshirt. Decisions are based on an agreement between coaches, parents and student/athletes. Isn't that what Gregory Martin said on a previous thread?
There is no reason to stop believing this team can again win the National Title. Sure, Penn State seems unbelievably tough, but how many times have you seen the balance change in a heartbeat in this sport?
We have our team. Let's go.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio State's 149 lbs
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on February 1, 2016
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There's a 4th Camp occupied by Niemann, Shep Diggity Dog, and myself, by which we believe the top teams falter and tOSU perseveres, snatching victory through a very tight window of opportunity. Our camp can offer no linear reasoning for why this would happen, yet believe, because we want to.
Ahhhhhhhhhaaaaaaa!
"In a spectacular twist of sovereignty as unforeseen circumstances played out in late February, the anticipated front running teams faltered going into the NCAAs.
They possessed neither the manpower (injuries, legal woes, and personal struggles) nor firepower (their stars underperformed) to hedge the Ohio State Buckeyes, who maximized every last team point opportunity, working like men whose children were at home starving.
Coach Ryan was overheard exhorting his tribe on Day One, 'When going through Hell... keep marching!' On Day Three, they repeated as NCAA Wrestling Champions."
#Repeat.
Let it be written, let it be so. :)
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