|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Michigan State Open
Ben Golden added to this discussion on November 17, 2015
|
I don't agree that Robles was unbeatable by the time the tourney rolled around, though he was certainly unbeaten. Anyway, also a moot point because we don't get to go back. Not to mention Stieber had a broken arm/wrist and was injured that year.
I get what you say with all those things about team/individual. I agree it's primarily an individual sport. If I thought my team had a chance to finish only 2nd, I would redshirt the guys that I thought would make good use of the redshirt. If I thought we had a legitimate shot to win it, though... becomes tougher IMO.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Michigan State Open
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on November 17, 2015
|
Logan Stieber's biggest problem as a true frosh was the weight cut. He was too big for 125 and killing himself to make it. His injury turned out to be the best thing that could have happened for his career.
I realize the Bucks have an outside shot to win an NCAA title again this season but it's just not likely. Not impossible...but not probable.
I am firmly in agreement with M-Rod (and Greg Martin) and feel strongly that My Martin should redshirt. I think the staff will get this one right as well.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Michigan State Open
Ben Golden added to this discussion on November 17, 2015
|
I'll add... I also think Bo's best chance to win a title is at 174.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Michigan State Open
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on November 17, 2015
|
The RS question has become more complex. I believe that a lot of 5th year seniors struggle, perhaps more than true freshmen.
Why? The abuse the body takes in a college room is substantial. I see a lot of 5th-years looking worn out. Plus they are looking for jobs, perhaps applying to grad schools, getting engaged... preparing for life. The true freshman is on campus and ready to rock and roll.
So, my opinion, a RS FR > a True FR, but often times a True FR > 5th year senior.
My opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Michigan State Open
Jason L. Jackson added to this discussion on November 17, 2015
|
Next question, if Myles redshirts, do you have him wrestle 184 the rest of the year?
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Michigan State Open
Ben Golden added to this discussion on November 17, 2015
|
IMO, yes, if that's the plan for next year. Who would the Bucks put at 65 next year though? Elijah Cleary?
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Michigan State Open
Pat Altvater added to this discussion on November 17, 2015
|
|
Quote from Ben Golden's post:
|
|
"I'll add... I also think Bo's best chance to win a title is at 174."
|
I guess that I would agree the 174 is the 'easiest' path to a championship for Bo, but I am not convinced that Dieringer is unbeatable. - In my mind, I see the BoJo/Dieringer relationship much like the Logan/Oliver situation from 4 years ago. Dieringer is a little older and more established, as was Oliver, but you have a younger up and comer who isn't afraid of any competition, and was just touching the edge of their collegiate potential. Oliver won round 1 against Logan at the Cliff Keen in Logan's red-shirt freshman year, but Logan came back to win the rematch in NCAA's that year. - I see the possibility of a similar situation in which Dieringer beat Bo at the NCAA's last year, but I think that Bo's competitiveness and learning curve could well catch-up before a rematch. If there is anyone that can beat Dieringer in that relative weight range, I think that it is Bo. - It would be fun to watch from a pure competition standpoint.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Michigan State Open
Brian Nicola added to this discussion on November 17, 2015
|
Mr. Martin---thanks for the comments. Glad to have you here!
Dot-Netters----It is fun as fans to discuss the ups-and-downs of a line-up...the fact that there is so much push for MyMar to wrestle and Jordan to drop is honestly a testament to his ability. I don't know what the right answer is, but consider this one:
In 1993, Dan Gable pulled Lincoln Macilravy's redshirt and ordered RETURNING NATIONAL CHAMP Troy Steiner to drop from his championship weight of 142 down to 134. Macilravy's dad was opposed to it (as most of us would have been), and he openly stated that he thought Steiner deserved better. Lincoln was also inserted shortly before the Big Ten's. People were scratching their heads. Of course, we know Macilravy wins it as a freshman, Steiner gets 3rd at 134 and the Hawks win their umpteenth B10 and NCAA title in a row.
Maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but if dropping Bo Jordan to 65 and inserting a very talented Myles Martin at 74 can result in a national title.........
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Michigan State Open
Dwight LeRoy added to this discussion on November 17, 2015
|
|
Quote from Ben Golden's post:
|
|
"IMO, yes, if that's the plan for next year. Who would the Bucks put at 65 next year though? Elijah Cleary?"
|
The current NLI and roster wrestlers, it would be determined by a wrestle off. If they get Isaiah White, I think he would probably be the best option.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Michigan State Open
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on November 17, 2015
|
Ethan: terrific observations on true frosh vs 5th year guys.
Ben G: Agree completely that Bo's most obvious path to a title takes place at 174.
Pat A: You are the eternal Buck optimist. But your sincerity is infectious.
Dwight the Insider: If I. White comes, you're probably right. But is he a 165 or a 157?
Brian N: Great story about Gable and McIlravy. I knew about McIlravy getting pulled out of redshirt but had no idea about Steiner having to drop and his Dad being ticked.
Aside: one true frosh who should probably be pulled out of redshirt is Logan Massa at Michigan. They have a terrific lineup and he's destroyed all his opponents so far. I don't know how good his competition has been but the starter at 165 is not one of their better wrestlers.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Michigan State Open
Justin Hayes added to this discussion on November 17, 2015
|
Good thread; we're rocking.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Michigan State Open
Doug Brandt added to this discussion on November 17, 2015
|
|
Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
|
|
"Ethan: terrific observations on true frosh vs 5th year guys.
Ben G: Agree completely that Bo's most obvious path to a title takes place at 174.
Pat A: You are the eternal Buck optimist. But your sincerity is infectious.
Dwight the Insider: If I. White comes, you're probably right. But is he a 165 or a 157?
Brian N: Great story about Gable and McIlravy. I knew about McIlravy getting pulled out of redshirt but had no idea about Steiner having to drop and his Dad being ticked.
Aside: one true frosh who should probably be pulled out of redshirt is Logan Massa at Michigan. They have a terrific lineup and he's destroyed all his opponents so far. I don't know how good his competition has been but the starter at 165 is not one of their better wrestlers."
|
I went to the 1993 NCAA's. Troy Steiner didn't give up a point (TF, TF, DFT) before meeting freshman Cary Kolat in the semis. Kolat dominated 8-4. Troy was the #1 seed at 134 that year.
When twin brother Terry Steiner won at 142, with a controversial finish at that, I remember Terry giving Jim Zalesky a big hug and ignoring Gable. I have no idea if that meant anything, but I was aware of Troy's forced drop to 134.
Troy was elated, too, and the two brothers hugged by the tunnel. I still have that on videotape.
1993 was my favorite NCAA, and my 2nd attendance. Two Buckeyes won that year, too, so that adds to it.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Michigan State Open
Brian Nicola added to this discussion on November 17, 2015
|
|
Quote from Doug Brandt's post:
|
|
"
|
Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
|
|
"
Brian N: Great story about Gable and McIlravy. I knew about McIlravy getting pulled out of redshirt but had no idea about Steiner having to drop and his Dad being ticked.
Aside: one true frosh who should probably be pulled out of redshirt is Logan Massa at Michigan. They have a terrific lineup and he's destroyed all his opponents so far. I don't know how good his competition has been but the starter at 165 is not one of their better wrestlers."
|
I went to the 1993 NCAA's. Troy Steiner didn't give up a point (TF, TF, DFT) before meeting freshman Cary Kolat in the semis. Kolat dominated 8-4. Troy was the #1 seed at 134 that year.
When twin brother Terry Steiner won at 142, with a controversial finish at that, I remember Terry giving Jim Zalesky a big hug and ignoring Gable. I have no idea if that meant anything, but I was aware of Troy's forced drop to 134.
Troy was elated, too, and the two brothers hugged by the tunnel. I still have that on videotape.
1993 was my favorite NCAA, and my 2nd attendance. Two Buckeyes won that year, too, so that adds to it."
|
Troy was at 134, Terry at 150 (Linc Mac was at 142). I've heard Troy say many times since then that the loss to Kolat had nothing to do with the weight cut, it was his loss, straight up. However, of course he's going to say that, he's a BA. And to clarify, it was Macilravy's dad who was upset with the supplanting ofTroy Steiner, not Old Man Steiner. I've always been a big Steiners fan....if you don't know their overtie series, get to it!
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Michigan State Open
Doug Brandt added to this discussion on November 17, 2015
|
Whoops. How could I forget Mac/Abas at 142? One of the most exciting finishes in NCAA history, and then it's followed by Steiner/Sunderland.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
