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Discussion Topic: kyle snyder..WORLD CHAMP
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on September 15, 2015
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Bravo Lou! Agree with every word you wrote.
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Discussion Topic: kyle snyder..WORLD CHAMP
Doug Brandt added to this discussion on September 16, 2015
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Discussion Topic: kyle snyder..WORLD CHAMP
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on September 16, 2015
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I would like to state - in a thread about Kyle "WORLD CHAMPION" Snyder - CONGRATULATIONS KYLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have most likely watched the match a dozen times. It's gotten to the point that the Mrs recognizes the announcer's call and looks at me and says, "Unreal."
She so cray.
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Discussion Topic: kyle snyder..WORLD CHAMP
Lou Demas added to this discussion on September 16, 2015
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Thanks, Hank!
Doug, I have read so many of these Types of threads and again it still subjective reasoning even on both sides but facts are facts we finished 7th at the World Championships this year and Russian has historically dominated the sport of Wrestling at the international level.
When I first joined the Marine Corp,we were training amphibious assault and beach landings, before I got out we were training in desert warfare and urban combat fighting. If our Generals said well I fought in Vietnam therefore I want to train our troops in jungle warfare training the majority of the time because we all know battle is battle,they would have been fired! The bottom line every wrestler has to ask himself is am I okay with sending our best warriors to battle ill-equipped to the landscape of the battlefield at the international level.
The other battle we are in is to keep growing our sport.I know two NCAA champions who have told me they didn't wrestle freestyle because they're not freestylers.They both had big fan bases, that I'm sure would have love to see them continue wrestling or some who wouldn't have even watched them wrestle freestyle because they don't understand the rules.Either way it's not good for the sport or growing the sport.
We need to make the change, we owe it to our sport but especially to our World Team Members, they sacrifice too much of their life to have to go into the highest levels of competitions at a deficit. If you want to have folkstyle wrestling,have some folkstyle tournament during the offseason and we can tell our grandchildren hey that's how grandpa used to wrestle back in the day!
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Discussion Topic: kyle snyder..WORLD CHAMP
Lou Demas added to this discussion on September 16, 2015
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Thanks, Hank!
Doug, I have read so many of these Types of threads and again it still subjective reasoning even on both sides but facts are facts we finished 7th at the World Championships this year and Russian has historically dominated the sport of Wrestling at the international level.
When I first joined the Marine Corp,we were training amphibious assault and beach landings, before I got out we were training in desert warfare and urban combat fighting. If our Generals said well I fought in Vietnam therefore I want to train our troops in jungle warfare training the majority of the time because we all know battle is battle,they would have been fired! The bottom line every wrestler has to ask himself is am I okay with sending our best warriors to battle ill-equipped to the landscape of the battlefield at the international level.
The other battle we are in is to keep growing our sport.I know two NCAA champions who have told me they didn't wrestle freestyle because they're not freestylers.They both had big fan bases, that I'm sure would have love to see them continue wrestling or some who wouldn't have even watched them wrestle freestyle because they don't understand the rules.Either way it's not good for the sport or growing the sport.
We need to make the change, we owe it to our sport but especially to our World Team Members, they sacrifice too much of their life to have to go into the highest levels of competitions at a deficit. If you want to have folkstyle wrestling,have some folkstyle tournament during the offseason and we can tell our grandchildren hey that's how grandpa used to wrestle back in the day!
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Discussion Topic: kyle snyder..WORLD CHAMP
Doug Brandt added to this discussion on September 16, 2015
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Lou, we may have finished 7th in freestyle, but the ranking system is pitiful. With a reasonable system, we are 2nd or 3rd in the world.
We actually had one of the best performances, with two golds and a bronze over the 8 weight classes. Russia, who won the team competition was the only other team to get two gold medals.
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Discussion Topic: kyle snyder..WORLD CHAMP
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on September 16, 2015
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Lou: I love your comparison to how soldiers train for various types of battle while we fail to prepare our best prospects in either Olympic style.
Our mindset on the sport is so insular as to be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.
The only good thing is that I think wrestlers like Aaron Pico are going to become more common. Maybe if more of the best young talents in the country skip collegiate competition, the college coaches will get the message and push to change the sport in a way that better prepares our wrestlers for International wrestling.
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Discussion Topic: kyle snyder..WORLD CHAMP
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on September 16, 2015
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Doug: that is the exact line I used last night while discussing this (in part) with Lou.
Until international-style tournaments do away with the (alleged) blind draw and lopsided brackets, spare me justification by stats of medals.
Do we have a stated reason for why this occurs???
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Discussion Topic: kyle snyder..WORLD CHAMP
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on September 16, 2015
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Light war of words between Snyder and Russian 19 yr old 2x world champ Sadulev (sp). Seems like a match between the two will happen.
Drago: Anytime. Anywhere and I will win 10-0.
Rocky: "is that a fact"
Drago: I wouldn't say if it wasn't a fact.
Rocky: I like well done over well saiid. This match will happen and we'll see what happens.
(Hiatt paraphrase of their tweets)
Fun stuff. Hope this happens at WNO or Beat the Streets.
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Discussion Topic: kyle snyder..WORLD CHAMP
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on September 17, 2015
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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" Our mindset on the sport is so insular as to be laughable if it wasn't so tragic. "
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a bit of hyperbole Hank, i'm sure u recognize this.
label me not as anti-olympic but rather pro folk. Thus i think both folk and olympic can co-exist, they are now. Our best can adapt to olympic styles, proof is they are doing it quite well, 4 World champs men & women--
but of course its a BIG world and not every American hero will make the cut on the internationl stage. Thats no reason to blame folk.
fact is youth and high school wrestling CARRY the sport on its back in this nation, if it was up to olympic styles the sport wouldnt exist in America--
folkstyle must have merit, alot of fans like it and its good enough to attract our youth off the couch INTO the sport. Yes of course folkstyle rule changes to eliminate stalling and reward the aggressor are welcome, and those are debatable.
at least in folkstyle we CONTROL our destiny, whereas in olympic styles we are subject to the whims, vagaries, ineptitude and corruption of an international body. How many vast rule changes in olympic styles the last 20 years? alot.
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Discussion Topic: kyle snyder..WORLD CHAMP
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on September 17, 2015
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Well stated, @BobP.
If I had the money, I'd buy you a gift card to Mister Brisket.
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Discussion Topic: kyle snyder..WORLD CHAMP
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on September 17, 2015
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If the rules at the youth/HS level were changed to current FS rules I don't think this would negatively impact participation. It may help. The style is more fun to watch, and easier to comprehend.
The college wrestling season prepares wrestlers to succeed in International competition because of the grind, the hard work, the mental toughness developed by that season and culture. Not because Folk as a wrestling style helps. That culture would not go away if the style/scoring system were altered. There would still be duals, tournaments, NCAAs, etc. The athletes would still have to be mentally sharp and prepared for 4-5 months. THAT is the value of the NCAA Folk season to our international success.
Re: the blind draw. I have no issue with this. How would you seed this tournament? It would be impossible, as the wrestlers don't wrestle similar schedules with comparable results. At the international level you have to be prepared each round, and in a typical bracket the best wrestler wins. Snyder is a great example - would he have been seeded 15th? 12th? Who knows. The blind draw is the only equitable way to do it.
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Discussion Topic: kyle snyder..WORLD CHAMP
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on September 17, 2015
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Quote from Ethan Moore's post:
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"If the rules at the youth/HS level were changed to current FS rules I don't think this would negatively impact participation. It may help. The style is more fun to watch, and easier to comprehend.
"
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more fun to watch? to u Ethan, not to me, not to alot of people -- i'm sure ohio state tourn attendance much much greater than Worlds attendance in Vegas.
to me the best wrestling ive enjoyed are at places like Ironman and ohio state tourn and the NHSCA seniors in pittsburgh an cleveland.
and u miss a point, we control folk, the whims of an international committee of nepotism-appointed men controls olympic. ive witnesed alot of vast rules changes in 20 years, fans don't like that crap, i know i don't.
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Discussion Topic: kyle snyder..WORLD CHAMP
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on September 17, 2015
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Bob - good point about the rule changes. I do think UWW is in a good place, though.
College Folk Style and riding time are the main beef for me. Consider Dake-Molinaro in the national finals. Dake won handily and had, what, 6 minutes of Riding Time? That is just a fraction more exciting than watching paint dry.
Can't compare attendance at state tournaments to international tournaments in my opinion. The OSHAA state meet is a lot of parents of the hundreds of competitors, all within driving distance. I bet they'd still attend if their sons got two points for a back exposure.
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Discussion Topic: kyle snyder..WORLD CHAMP
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on September 17, 2015
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Etha,
i have no problem tweaking folk rules to reward aggressor, penalize staller-- some rules are there but not well-enforced at college level.
the best Americans can do very well on world stage, college not interfering with that ability -- sometimes guys like Metcalf just not gonna medal, its a big world. Think of it WORLD, many top wrestlers wont even ever make world team. Thats life.
youth and high school and college wrestling in America cannot be dependent on the UWW, and a handful of guys competing once a year at Worlds.
i've heard good high school coaches say its a welcome change for kids to go from folk to free in the spring, a new challenge to stimulate them. -- bottom line both can co-exist.
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