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Discussion Topic: Lehigh - 48 Hours Later
Sean Koran added to this discussion on February 23, 2015

Taking a look at things, while this result was disappointing, it really should not have been that unexpected and really isn't very bad.

125 - Nato was a heavy favorite and was 1 point from a major.

133 - JDJ loses by 1 point to Beckman, who was 6th in the country last year. Would have been a great win but certainly not a bad loss.

141 - Logan crushes.

149 - Languis has won one match this calendar year. Not sure why a win would be expected. He lost close in OT.

157 - Demas loses by 2 points to Minotti, who was 6th in the country last year. Same as JDJ, would have been a really nice win but not a bad loss.

165 - BOJO crushes.

174 - Martin almost always wins over guys he's ranked ahead of. But Martinez actually appears to be pretty good, despite no ranking. He's only lost two matches since moving to 174 this year - to #18 Duke Pickett (who he later beat on Saturday), and to #5 Eblen by 2 points. He was also a two-time NCWA national champ. This loss is not looking like a disaster either.

184 - Brown is ranked #3 in the country, so Courts was almost certain to lose this match. 0-0 after 1, then apparently does something dumb while riding and gets himself pinned. Certainly giving up the extra three points was not at all good, but it seems like he was wrestling a very good wrestler tough prior to the big error.

197 - Snyder majors the #10 guy in the country with the match on the line. Great win.

285 - Vollaro was a top 10 recruit overall. Tav was wrestling his first match in over a month coming off of an injury.

Frustrating loss? Certainly. Motivating? Hopefully. Cause for alarm? I don't think so.



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Discussion Topic: Lehigh - 48 Hours Later
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 23, 2015

After reading Mitch Clark's post, I'll take it a step further.

The Bucks, exhausted from the Big Ten grind, decide to throw the match. This was the conversation:

Logan: Guys, I'm tired. We gotta lose. Should I take an "L" for the team?

Teammates: No, we need you to win so you get the Hodge. The Rooks need the seeding. We'll take care of biz later.

JDJ: I'll allow myself to be ridden out.

Hunter: I'll just keep saying my elbow hurts.

Languis: I'll continue to make everyone overconfident by losing a close match. Then Hunter can crush all of them later.

Demas: Gonna hit a chin whip at the end but not step over just to add drama.

Martin: Do I really gotta lose? Ok, I'll shrug him in the first and then let him hit some nonsense just when it looks like I'm gonna score. Then I'll let him ride me out by reaching inside and grabbing my toe the whole period. It will be the biggest stall ride of all time but I'll work so hard the ref won't call it.

Courts: I'll give up a late TD.

Tav: Me too.

Team: Let's add it up. Nope, we might still win. Who's willing to get stuck? (no one agrees)

Logan: Let's draw straws. Courts looks like you got the short one.

Courts: Aw, man, Coach is gonna be ticked. And those forum idiots will be all over me again.

Team: C'mon Kenny.

Courts: alright.

(editor's note--Stole this idea from the South Park episode where the boys keep trying to lose because they're sick of playing baseball).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8n00Sp07rQ



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Discussion Topic: Lehigh - 48 Hours Later
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on February 23, 2015

I laughed.

Not out loud. Just on the inside.



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Discussion Topic: Lehigh - 48 Hours Later
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 23, 2015

Just looked at National Duals results for first time on InterMat...

Lehigh turns out to be a LOT tougher than we thought. Some moron compared them to Purdue.
Mea Culpa.



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Discussion Topic: Lehigh - 48 Hours Later
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on February 23, 2015

Quote from Sean Koran's post:

" Taking a look at things, while this result was disappointing, it really should not have been that unexpected and really isn't very bad.

Frustrating loss? Certainly. Motivating? Hopefully. Cause for alarm? I don't think so."




yes i think its cause for some concern, i don't like the word "alarm" but definitely there are reasons for "concern".

Mitch Clark brought up good point, Big Ten schedule takes it toll. This is the time of year contenders should be showing some steam, some resolve. Ask yourself, are they as a team showing resolve?

And Ohio st depends on 3 super freshman, highly capable yes however NCAA tourn is littered with frosh phenoms.

Hunter even if he was healthy has hands full. Hunter will surely be at a great disadvantage with just three bouts wrestled and two of them losses. Seeded? i don't know but a decent seed will get him only so far. Houdesheldt vs Sorenson this weekend showed the stuff he's going to run up against at the NCAA.



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Discussion Topic: Lehigh - 48 Hours Later
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 23, 2015

Bob: You have a valid point but if you examine how Lehigh performed the rest of the way, it turns out they're pretty good...a lot better than Purdue (mea culpa). Without knowing much about the rest of their season, I'd guess they may have been missing some key pieces due to injury for much of the year...or they just kept improving.

And look at Iowa v Mizzou. I still look at the Mizzou lineup and see a team very similar to Ohio State. Waters, Cox, Houdashelt and Mayes then lots of guys who could place but are not sure things. Mizzou's solid guys had great weekends. Ohio state's didn't.

Up to the staff to make adjustments.

Also have to wonder if the Big Ten grind isn't counter productive. That's why depth matters. Guys need weeks off.



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Discussion Topic: Lehigh - 48 Hours Later
Mark Martin, Sr. added to this discussion on February 23, 2015

I think it's too long of a grind for too long with all those multiple one hr weigh ins weekly against top guys never getting a easy match unless your a freak



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Discussion Topic: Lehigh - 48 Hours Later
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on February 23, 2015

Quote from Mark Martin, Sr.'s post:

"I think it's too long of a grind for too long with all those multiple one hr weigh ins weekly against top guys never getting a easy match unless your a freak"



Mark, I know it really helps the team since we don't seem to have a great backup but has Mark ever wrestled off for 184 since it seems he is cutting a lot of weight?



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Discussion Topic: Lehigh - 48 Hours Later
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on February 23, 2015

James; MarMar would have to weigh-in close to 174 due to NCAA weigh-in rules. Wrestlers can only lose so much weight between weigh-ins.

I'm trying to think of someone who did that recently. I know Cox wrestled up, but I was thinking it was a season or two ago. Anywho, one of the wrestlers wrestled up and then a couple days later, dropped back down o his original weight class. People were talking how the wrestler won that first match by basically giving up 10 lbs. due to that rule.



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Discussion Topic: Lehigh - 48 Hours Later
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on February 23, 2015

Quote from Mark Niemann's post:

"James; MarMar would have to weigh-in close to 174 due to NCAA weigh-in rules. Wrestlers can only lose so much weight between weigh-ins.

I'm trying to think of someone who did that recently. I know Cox wrestled up, but I was thinking it was a season or two ago. Anywho, one of the wrestlers wrestled up and then a couple days later, dropped back down o his original weight class. People were talking how the wrestler won that first match by basically giving up 10 lbs. due to that rule."



I was thinking more long term and wrestling Kenny off for the starting spot at 184



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Discussion Topic: Lehigh - 48 Hours Later
Alex Creech added to this discussion on February 23, 2015

After the grind of a season, particularly the big ten, I just don't think there's room in the schedule for national duals, conference tourney, then NCAA's......with enough time for guys to get healthy after a long season. so what do you do? get rid of national duals? shorten the regular season? suck it up?



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Discussion Topic: Lehigh - 48 Hours Later
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 23, 2015

Alex: I agree. The problem with National Duals is the placement. Early in season? Vegas. Middle of season? Scuffle and Midlands. Then there's conference wrestling and then everyone wants a break prior to qualifiers.



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Discussion Topic: Lehigh - 48 Hours Later
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on February 23, 2015

Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:

" Bob: You have a valid point but ...

Mizzou's solid guys had great weekends. Ohio state's didn't.

Also have to wonder if the Big Ten grind isn't counter productive. That's why depth matters. Guys need weeks off."




well YES Hank, thats the point Mitch made so eloquently, and ive repeated several times, the Big Ten grind has perhaps taken its toll. --- and NO Ohio st didnt show resolve as a team, Mizzou did.



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Discussion Topic: Lehigh - 48 Hours Later
Roe Fox added to this discussion on February 23, 2015

Sean: I respect the glass is more than half full approach. Still, we should have beaten Lehigh.

As far as NCAAs, the freshmen don't seem to have lung problems. We absolutely have to have the upperclassmen perform. Iowa, Minny, PSU, all the top teams except Mo have the same schedule. Its ironic we thought the frosh would be the key to a title. It may just be the upperclassmen.

And if Hunter were healthy I don't think anyone is favored over him. How unfortunate for him and the team. I'm with Hank: if he is injured shut him down. If he can wrestle, he is our best shot. I'm rooting for him and it could be a heroic story. . .or just a courageous try.

I still like our chances, though. Then again, I'm a Buckeye.



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Discussion Topic: Lehigh - 48 Hours Later
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on February 23, 2015

One thing I think people are not figuring in to this equation is the grind of the B1G schedule compared to that of Ivy or MAC schools.

Not sure why no one is mentioning that, but in my opinion, it needs to be factored in.



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