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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on September 30, 2014

Quote from Mark Niemann's post:

"

Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:

"Pat A:
When true frosh Hunter beat Kellen Russell, was it because Russell was hurt and sick? Or, maybe, did Hunter present him with some new challenges for which he was a bit unprepared at that particular time. Especially because they had not wrestled previously.

Apply the correct answer to that question to Retherford v Stieber round one."



Hank... Certainly you are wiser than this??? When a Buckeye defeats someone who is "supposed to be" better, it is a foreshadowing of things to come! And should a Buckeye lose to any opponent, well, surely you know the reasons! Sick, injured, fatigued, etc.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled program."



I stand corrected. ;)



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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on September 30, 2014

http://www.flowrestling.org/asics-florankings/college/174

174 ranks are out.

Mark Martin needs to be 100% for the Buckeyes. He's good. Very good. ...when he's healthy. Haven't seen that side of him in a while.

For the Buckeyes to bring home a championship in March, Martin will need to do better than what he is ranked.



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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Ben Golden added to this discussion on September 30, 2014

Quote from Pat Altvater's post:

"

Quote from Ben Golden's post:

"Nope. These attempt to order guys based purely on past performance, with an emphasis on recent results. They aren't meant to project forward in time."



Ben: Couldn't the same be said about all rankings and predictions. - The two are always very closely tied together.

As an example, when Logan was defeated on a cold night in State College by freshman Zain Retherford, after a long bus ride, while recovering from the flu, everyone knew that the result was abnormal, and that Zain would pay for it in future matches. The next ranking dropped Logan to 3rd or 4th, which totally discounted his dominant history over this class. - Even after Logan beat ZR at the BIG10's he couldn't regain the #1 seed.

These lower rankings held down Logan's ranking into NCAA seeds, which are in a sense 'predicitions!. Logan was tough enough that the lower seed did not hinder his progress through the tournament.

RPI and some of the other ratings services are 'predictive' in nature as they take in to account the strength of competition, but they are still rankings!"



What you describe about Stieber dropping after his loss seems UNLIKE predictions to me, as you say "everyone knew that the result was abnormal, and that Zain would pay for it in future matches."

However, these rankings (Flo) kept Stieber ranked #1 after his loss to Retherford. This not as a prediction, but because, even with the loss, Stieber's NCAA resume (2 titles, fresh off an undefeated season, win over Oliver and a slew of other multiple time AA's) was far better than Retherford's. Retherford did not have deep enough "roots" to supplant Stieber.



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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on September 30, 2014

Quote from Mark Niemann's post:

"http://www.flowrestling.org/asics-florankings/college/174

174 ranks are out.

Mark Martin needs to be 100% for the Buckeyes. He's good. Very good. ...when he's healthy. Haven't seen that side of him in a while.

For the Buckeyes to bring home a championship in March, Martin will need to do better than what he is ranked."



Storley must not be going 165. That is a big obstacle that Bo doesn't have to go through.



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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on September 30, 2014

Quote from James Kessen's post:

"

Storley must not be going 165. That is a big obstacle that Bo doesn't have to go through."



But go through it, he would have. Long live BoJo! Hip, hip, hooray!!!



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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Steve Lester added to this discussion on September 30, 2014

Every year, it's interesting to see what kind of team can be put together of ranked D1 wrestlers from Greater Cleveland area high schools.

Some years not all weights are filled (nobody ranked). Not so this year.

From C.P.'s rankings we can see the POTENTIAL for a very good GC showing.

125 Tomasello (Mines).
133 DiJulius (DiCamillo). I wonder if DiCam will surprise some folks.
141 Collica and Bright. Not sure of the starter here after all is said and done.
149 Habat (Claxton). To be truthful Habat has been a pleasant surprise (though maybe not to others).
157 Sako (Scheidel).
165 Sulzer (Hightower).
174 Walters (Martin).

C.P.'s ranking will finish in 3 days, but projecting ahead:
184 Dom Abounader. Alex Utley probably outside top 20. Anything official on Sam Wheeler?
197 Phil Wellington
285 Nick Tavanello (Ty Walz may make top 20).


Rankings predict, whooops, meant to say suggest, 3 or 4 AAs and another 4 or 5 R12s.

Potentially.



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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on October 1, 2014

Steve: I wonder how many other areas can say that? I would assume there are a few, but I would be curious to see the list.

I suppose, first, we would have to define the center of the geographical location, and then work within a determined radius.

But it would be neat to see!



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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Pat Altvater added to this discussion on October 1, 2014

Quote from Mark Niemann's post:

"Steve: I wonder how many other areas can say that? I would assume there are a few, but I would be curious to see the list.

I suppose, first, we would have to define the center of the geographical location, and then work within a determined radius.

But it would be neat to see!"



I am kind of surprised that Steve didn't choose a radius that included Monroeville in it?



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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on October 1, 2014

Sadly, this is the last hurrah for greater Cleveland. I have never seen the area looking worse. So many once solid programs are down. Hope Eds bounces back because without them, the Cleveland area is pedestrian. Also, hope that Tony D and Jamie Milk coach forever. When they leave, the area will probably never be the same.



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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Steve Lester added to this discussion on October 1, 2014

"I am kind of surprised that Steve didn't choose a radius that included Monroeville in it?"

I didn't choose it. Call it the Plain Dealer 7 counties coverage area.

Now if you want an official boundary you can go with the Northeast Ohio District, which would add the Federal League (ie-Mass Perry) to the mix.

Monroeville, part of the Northwest District, gets to be claimed by Toledo.



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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Steve Lester added to this discussion on October 1, 2014

Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:

"Sadly, this is the last hurrah for greater Cleveland. I have never seen the area looking worse. So many once solid programs are down. Hope Eds bounces back because without them, the Cleveland area is pedestrian. Also, hope that Tony D and Jamie Milk coach forever. When they leave, the area will probably never be the same."



Alas, so it would seem.

Check out Borofan's analysis (on another site) of where last year's 8th grade Ohio studs are going for 9th grade.



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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on October 1, 2014

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtGxusvUT3k

Hank, u make good points-- however i think this well might be TonyD last season. JamieM still carrying on, and Graham Coghill still is here albeit at another school.

st Eds 3 1/2 decade dynasty might be only a "state player" nowadays as opposed to what it always has been since the late 70's, a national player. St Eds doesnt appear to be geting near as many of the same type of wrestler that they use to get. --Maybe its our culture in general.

AND where are the COACHES?? the young TonyD's, JamieM's, Clay Burkhard's, Frank Jayne's, Larry Hoon's, John Story's, Mike Papouras', Howard Ferguson's, Bill Barger's, Mike Arnold's, Ed Govang's, Bill McGrain's (Hank Kornblut's?)-- i could go on & on please forgive any standouts of the last 30 years who ive slighted.

Greater Cleveland has historically been the cradle of great high school coaches. We've got a few now: Todd Haverdill at Brecksville, Eric Burnett at Elyria, John Gramuglia a Wadsworth, and Adam Koballa at Walsh Jesuit (yes i think Walsh struck gold with Koballa). Need more.

sure theres been big population loss (as Niemann likes to point out) but to paraphrase LeBron we don't accept excuses in NE Ohio, we earn what we get.



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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on October 1, 2014

The last year for TonyD??? Say it ain't so. Without any knowledge of it, that man had more of an influence on my career than anyone other than my head coach (and John Gramuglia). I wonder how many wrestlers he's done that for and probably has no idea. He is a special man and a fantastic coach...and therein lies the problem. You're asking, who gonna step up and be spectacular? Who's gonna make adolescent males believe in themselves and strive for more than they thought they could be? Who's gonna be a leader of young men? It's a tall order, one I haven't been up to the challenge for. I can do it for one or two guys who buy in, but reaching an entire untit is completely lost on me.

I wish I could. I don't know why I cant, but it's not there...and I marvel and admire with awe and wonder those who do (or even try to).



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Discussion Topic: Flowrestling/C.P.'s Rankings
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on October 1, 2014

By the way, I think Flo's ranking are dead on.



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