Discussion

Folkstyle

G-R and Freestyle

Teams

Rankings

2019 UWW Senior World Championships
2019 Final X
2019 Junior Greco-Roman National Duals
2019 Junior Boys' Freestyle National Duals
Division changes for 2019-2020 OHSAA Dual Championships
2019 AAU National Duals (Disney Duals)
2019 Yasar Dogu International Tournament
2019 Junior and 16U National Championships (Fargo)
Division changes for 2019-2020 OHSAA Individual Championships

Forum Home

Forum Search

Register

Log in

Log in to check your private messages

Profile

► Add to the Discussion

Page 1, 2, 3  Next

Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on September 2, 2014

http://www.win-magazine.com/v2/2014/09/minnesota-edges-iowa-and-cornell-in-wins-preseason-tpi-rankings/



Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
John DiJulius added to this discussion on September 2, 2014

Love that we are the underdog.



Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on September 2, 2014

All wrestlers for Ohio State are ranked in the top 15, except the oddly omitted 197: Kyle "Snyderman" Snyder. Hmmmmmmm... as he scratched his chin whilst gazing afar into the horizon.

EDIT: Team rankings are nothing I didn't expect. The top six are all strong, and someone mentioned Edinboro returning a strong core. It's going to be a great season!!!

125: Tomasello-he'll have his work cut out for himself
133: DiJulius: need a strong NCAA tournament from start to finish
141: L. Stieber: Port will pose a threat
149: H. Stieber: he's in the mix with those ahead of him; interested to see him and Tsirstis go after it
157: Demas: needs to be healthy moving into March
165: Jordan: I like him against Moore & Palacio. The other four will prove to be wars. Tussles, even. Dare I say "donnybrooks"!? #LacemUpTight
174: Martin: he, too, needs to be (as close to) 100% moving into #STL2015. The Buckeyes need him to AA in order to get to the top.
184: Courts: put the pedal to the floor and improve on a projected 6th!!!!!!!!!!
197: Snyder: not sure why he's not listed. #wt3
285: Tavanello: for some reason, in my mind, I have him becoming an AA. He'll have to have a great B1G in order to get the proper seed that will set him up for his run.

Go Buckeyes!

#wt3



Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Jim Kessen added to this discussion on September 2, 2014

I don't think they ranked true freshman. Plus some wts. were wrong.


quote="Mark Niemann"]All wrestlers for Ohio State are ranked in the top 15, except the oddly omitted 197: Kyle "Snyderman" Snyder. Hmmmmmmm... as he scratched his chin whilst gazing afar into the horizon.

EDIT: Team rankings are nothing I didn't expect. The top six are all strong, and someone mentioned Edinboro returning a strong core. It's going to be a great season!!!

125: Tomasello-he'll have his work cut out for himself
133: DiJulius: need a strong NCAA tournament from start to finish
141: L. Stieber: Port will pose a threat
149: H. Stieber: he's in the mix with those ahead of him; interested to see him and Tsirstis go after it
157: Demas: needs to be healthy moving into March
165: Jordan: I like him against Moore & Palacio. The other four will prove to be wars. Tussles, even. Dare I say "donnybrooks"!? #LacemUpTight
174: Martin: he, too, needs to be (as close to) 100% moving into #STL2015. The Buckeyes need him to AA in order to get to the top.
184: Courts: put the pedal to the floor and improve on a projected 6th!!!!!!!!!!
197: Snyder: not sure why he's not listed. #wt3
285: Tavanello: for some reason, in my mind, I have him becoming an AA. He'll have to have a great B1G in order to get the proper seed that will set him up for his run.

Go Buckeyes!

#wt3[/quote]



Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Mike Taylor added to this discussion on September 2, 2014

Here's the answer to your question Mark:

The Buckeyes are expected to earn six All-American honors, including OSU’s three-time champ Logan Stieber (141), who will be reunited with his All-American brother Hunter Stieber (149), who redshirted last winter. Not factored into WIN’s Preseason Rankings because they have yet to wrestle a college varsity match for the Buckeyes: Kyle Snyder, Bo Jordan and Nathan Tomasello. Snyder, for example, would start off the year ranked No. 4 at 197 and would give the Buckeyes enough TPI points to start the year ranked No. 1 ahead of Minnesota.



Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on September 2, 2014

Mike: Where is that from? Is that somewhere in the WIN article?

EDIT: Got it. Saw it, Mike. I scrolled through to the rankings earlier. I have no time to read articles. ;-)



Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on September 2, 2014

heck we had a true freshman NCAA champ last season, Tsirtsis-- we have more & more true frosh AAs every year, cant ignore.

not ranking true freshmen & RS freshmen is a dumb policy, rendering these rankings worthless. Not worth reading, pitch em.



Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Ben Golden added to this discussion on September 3, 2014

Cox, not Tsirtsis, was the true frosh champ last year.

I personally respect the no-rank-true-frosh policy. Sure plenty of them wind up on the podium, but plenty don't and it's quite tough to use HS results as a predictor of true frosh success. True frosh don't have any relevant results the vast majority of the time. And when they do, it's in freestyle, which is a bit different.



Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on September 3, 2014

Cox, Tsirtsis, got em mixed up, one true frosh champ, one a RS frosh NCAA champ--- nevertheless 2 freshmen NCAA champs.

the reason i think its bad rankings is because they are taking the easy way out just ranking returnees. And for sure it doesnt give a complete picture when we know freshmen, RS or true, will place and will effect weight class -- & team placing, in Ohio states case by alot.

would it be foolish to rank Snyder? of course not, enough info is there. Kids anymore come out of high school ready to perform, their capabilities are well known. Many have competed against college men or in FILA already.

if the team ranking is to mean anything the publication has to include obvious starters who are freshmen, we all know who they are, or at least could be, and its the rankers job to estimate their impact. The best rankers do that.



Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Jamie Teel added to this discussion on September 3, 2014

I agree with Bob....Would a ranker disregard free agents or rookies in pro sports? To disregard a guy like Snyder is just plain silly. I can see taking a "wait and see" approach and undervalue a true freshman a little bit but to completely disregard a clear starter is a disservice and completely discredits the article...renders the rankings useless.



Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on September 3, 2014

sage words from James Teel, # 4 in dotcom NCAA contest last march (#1 brandon howes, 2 sean koran, 3 bobp, 4 teel, 5 steve simok, as recorded by the ancient scribes.)

WIN took the easy way out --in another era it was refered to as a copout-- let's see what other notable pubs do? Flo, InterMat, AWN, TOM. i bet a couple of them do include the newcomers.



Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Rex Holman added to this discussion on September 4, 2014

Totally agree with Bob and Jamie. If you are going to make any prediction at all, why not encompass as many variables as possible.

There is a time to evaluate past practice and understand why you do it a certain way. Sometimes the reason for having done something becomes irrelevant or plain nonsense steeped in tradition.



Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on September 4, 2014

Ranking is a hard job but rankers don't know when to vary from their process. They stick with results based info so they can justify their rankings. Problem is that the info can be contradictory.

Last year, Logan slipped to #4 after losing to Retherford. Ahead of him were Port, Carter and Retherford. Logan never regained #1 ranking or seed in spite of the fact his career has been better than those other three combined. Keep in mind that Logan won by bonus in every match last season with the exception of three--all against Retherford.

IMO rankers need to know when to deviate from their process. CPyles has shown a willingness to do it. Others haven't.

Again, tough job. But if you want to get it right, you have to be flexible.

However...the Snyder issue is tricky. It's folkstyle and he's moving down in weight. Should he be ranked? Absolutely! But I think a "wait and see" approach before placing him in the top 6 is fair.



Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on September 4, 2014

in 20 years of it, i learned one of the main rules of ranking: use all available relevent info. WIN college doesnt do that.

If u exclude new college guys ---could be freshmen, RS freshmen OR JUST GUYS WHO HAVENT STARTED YET--- guys that will probably be AAs and will greatly effect the team race, if u exclude them how is that smart ranking?? in what way are you best serving your reader by adhering to this policy??

Ron Good of AWN was the dean of college rankers until TOM bumped him aside in that short-lived merger, he has since retired. Ron tells me he agrees u must include freshmen and RS freshmen.

(PS Hank, Ron Good would have kept Logan at # 1.)

The top college rankers know the college coaches well, certianly Ron knew em all, they confided in Ron, so it was pretty much known who was going to be an immediate impact guy and what his wt would be. Gotta use such info. ...s/BobP



Last edited by Bob Preusse on September 4, 2014; edited 1 time in total

Add to the discussion and quote this      

Discussion Topic: Bucks Ranked 4th in WIN Preseason Rankings
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on September 4, 2014

Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:

" CPyles has shown a willingness to do it. Others haven't.
"



Agree... I'm not big on rankings, but I enjoy CPs because he explains his rationale each time. Even if you don't agree...at least you know what he was thinking. Keep up the good work kid!



Add to the discussion and quote this      

► Add to the Discussion

Page 1, 2, 3  Next