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Discussion Topic: World Team Trials - 2014
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on June 3, 2014
If ESPN had shown the wrestling--rather than FLO--I wonder how it would have been perceived by a national audience which knows nothing about any of the competitors. I'd imagine that many would have been intrigued by the women.
As a side bar to this discussion, I'd be interested in knowing how many premium level subscribers Flo has.
You guys are complaining about a broadcast because you know the competitors and who you most want to watch. But what if that number is miniscule...along the lines of 5000 watching.
This isn't about who's right or wrong as much as the basic reality of the situation. You don't have to care about women's wrestling but without it there is no mens at the international level.
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Discussion Topic: World Team Trials - 2014
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on June 3, 2014
Hank: do you think that way (no international women's wrestling = no international men's wrestling) because of Title IX-esque reasons; as a society we are fighting for all things equal?
I guess I ask because we've had men's international wrestling for centuries. If nothing else, history is certainly on its side.
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Discussion Topic: World Team Trials - 2014
Ben Golden added to this discussion on June 3, 2014
Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"
You guys are complaining about a broadcast because you know the competitors and who you most want to watch. But what if that number is miniscule...along the lines of 5000 watching. "
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See I wouldn't view 5000 as a bad number. If those 5000 people pay for annual subscriptions, that indicates $750k revenue for Flo just from FloPro (assuming all subscribers are paying the $150/year rather than $20/mo). Not a bad place to build from when you consider that not all their subscribers would be viewing this event. I would expect the number of viewers to increase in coming years as event promotion improves and college superstars like Taylor, Ruth, Stieber, Pico, Dake become bigger and bigger parts of the senior scene. But if the product is boring because people aren't interested, their desire to watch will be less, which correlates with fewer subscribers.
Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"This isn't about who's right or wrong as much as the basic reality of the situation. You don't have to care about women's wrestling but without it there is no mens at the international level."
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Ideally you don't have to watch it if you don't care about it.
Just my thoughts.
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Discussion Topic: World Team Trials - 2014
Ben Golden added to this discussion on June 3, 2014
A couple notes:
1) I keep referring to Flo. I do this because they are the ones who have developed a model for making a profit off of wrestling. My thoughts kind of build on the idea that a) that profitability would continue to grow (throughout the wrestling industry, not just Flo) in such a way that feeds more and money to the wrestlers and b) that's a more favorable route than wrestling being subsidized.
2) Despite the fact that I keep referring to them, I don't think Flo is the one determining the format for finals/match order. That's a USA Wrestling thing.
3) By some of the responses I see, I feel that my words are being interpreted like "I hate women's wrestling and want it to die." That's not what I'm saying. I'm cool with women's wrestling existing and it would be cool if it grew, but at this point I (and trust me I'm not alone in this) do not care to watch the matches. If the were splicing golf footage into the broadcast, I would be equally displeased because I am not interested in watching golf either. I think that force feeding the matches to Men's FS fans is detrimental to the fan base that wrestling does have.
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Discussion Topic: World Team Trials - 2014
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on June 3, 2014
Ben: It's not that i really want to watch them either. But if we don't support women's wrestling, who will?
FWIW--women's freestyle is more exciting than most collegiate matches. Now that's boring to all but the purists!
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Discussion Topic: World Team Trials - 2014
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on June 3, 2014
Hank: I'll agree with the lighter weights. The upper weights are difficult to watch. And I think that's putting it nicely.
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Discussion Topic: World Team Trials - 2014
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on June 3, 2014
Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"Ben: It's not that i really want to watch them either. But if we don't support women's wrestling, who will?"
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Exactly, who will?? answer, no one.
if no one likes a sport or a product its gonna fail, force feeding the fan or the public or the consumer doesnt work in America.
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Discussion Topic: World Team Trials - 2014
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on June 3, 2014
Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"
Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"Ben: It's not that i really want to watch them either. But if we don't support women's wrestling, who will?"
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Exactly, who will?? answer, no one.
if no one likes a sport or a product its gonna fail, force feeding the fan or the public or the consumer doesnt work in America."
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By that logic, why have any women's sports? Not a large audience as far as I can tell. And might as well dump collegiate wrestling. Who really cares other than several thousand rabid followers who are boring each other to death on forums.
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Discussion Topic: World Team Trials - 2014
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on June 3, 2014
my logic is ok--
colleges under title 9 choose to support a certain number of mens and women sports as their budget permits and to comply with the law-- each sport may be popular but usually not.
of the many unpopular, no one is force feeding mens college wrestling -or fencing or synchronized swimming- watch it or don't as u choose.
Under both scenarios, college or USAWR/FILA, fans cannot be force fed, they wont accept that, thats my point and im sticking to it. That leaves womens wrestling with what are perhaps very low popularity ratings, but it is what it is. And in time it might change.
(i make no knock whatsoever on the dedicated highly skilled athletes in unpopular sports. i admire them.)
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Discussion Topic: World Team Trials - 2014
Rick Wasmer added to this discussion on June 3, 2014
I believe I heard them say the order of the matches was based on the weight classes.
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Discussion Topic: World Team Trials - 2014
Brandon Gambucci added to this discussion on June 3, 2014
As a current wrestler, I truly feel that if we want wrestling to succeed we need to stand behind women's wrestling. I don't think we're to the point of success (as a sport) to where we, as fans, can or should start treating the sport in such a commercial manner. It wasn't long ago that we were simply fighting for our sport's survival. Without women's wrestling, we might not have been able to enjoy these phenomenal WTT matchups, "pro" sponsorships, and upcoming studs. We're in a very interesting place with unprecedented ESPN and FLO coverage, and we need to make sure we keep going in the right direction. Women's wrestling may not be the most fun matches to watch( although neither are a lot of Collegiate, Heavyweight, and Greco matches), but IMHO it's so, so important that we at least make the effort to support women's wrestling.I totally understand the logic of capitalism and well perceived business ventures, but since when has wrestling been a sport that operates in that manner? I for one would love for it to eventually be in a place where we can operate in that way, but for now, we're still just trying to gather our bearings and grow. If you're just a casual fan who likes to watch the marquee matchups, then that's totally fine. That's great support (and awesome entertainment, I might add). For those really,truly invested in the future of the sport; however, supporting women's wrestling is vital to our success at all levels.
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