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Discussion Topic: Logie Putting Food on Gene Smith's Table
Dan Ransick added to this discussion on March 28, 2014

Quote from Roe Fox's post:

"I can't give the answer on how much is too much and their are good points for the bonus made by Mike and others.

Still, at what salary -- like Smith's one MILLION per year -- does one do what they are paid to do without expecting more. His JOB is to make TOSU athletics as successful AND compliant as humanly possible.

What was the first million for?"



He does run the largest athletic program in the nation.



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Discussion Topic: Logie Putting Food on Gene Smith's Table
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 28, 2014

unfortunately Smith's compensation package-- which appears to be a case of greed to much of the public-- only inflames the "football players union" issue.

On that issue i say if it comes true, this will cause a littany of UNINTENDED NEGATIVE consequences:

...will the Braxton Millers be satisfied with being paid same as benchwarming guys, which is most of the team??? No they wont.
...what about non-revenue sports and all the players geting PARTIAL schols or no schols, whats their take if any???
...Football WONT BE GIVING 85 fulls anymore, under new pay plan, maybe 50 fulls like an NFL team. Guys will be cut too.
...at some div 1 colleges, and all div 2 and 3, football will be gone, cant afford them, football was already a money loser.
....most sports like wrestling, lacrosse, swimming, diving will have to be dropped.
...And this is only the start, maybe STRIKES, how about threat of a strike the week before the Ohio St vs Michigan game??
...it will be THE END of college sports and college wrestling for sure.



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Discussion Topic: Logie Putting Food on Gene Smith's Table
Ben Golden added to this discussion on March 28, 2014

Bob, while I can't say that all those things will happen with the certainty that you do, but I do agree that those things are possible consequences. There's simply not nearly enough money in college sports to pay all the athletes. What percent of college sports budgets (percent by dollars) are not subsidized?



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Discussion Topic: Logie Putting Food on Gene Smith's Table
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 28, 2014

Ben, all these things will happen-- and even more. The Law of Unintended consequences guarantees it.

Imagine the Title 9 people geting involved, which will have to happen-- maybe the AFL-CIO, maybe the Teamsters, the federal court system, the NLRB, the Justice Dept.

i'm confident it would be the end of college wrestling, which barely hangs on now.



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Discussion Topic: Logie Putting Food on Gene Smith's Table
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on March 28, 2014

Quote from Bob Preusse's post:

"...Football WONT BE GIVING 85 fulls anymore, under new pay plan, maybe 50 fulls like an NFL team. Guys will be cut too."



I'd love to see this happen. If the NFL can do it, why can't college? It would likely help with parity as well. Everybody bags on Title IX and how women's programs are killing wrestling, but it's football and its ridiculous allocation of scholarships is the real problem. The difference between 85 and 50 would be the best funded wrestling team in the country.



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Discussion Topic: Logie Putting Food on Gene Smith's Table
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 28, 2014

Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:

"

Quote from Bob Preusse's post:

"...Football WONT BE GIVING 85 fulls anymore, under new pay plan, maybe 50 fulls like an NFL team. Guys will be cut too."



I'd love to see this happen. If the NFL can do it, why can't college? "




good point, once again we agree Mike --- fact is i've been making this exact point for a decade on forums: Div I college football is killing mens sports. Women will get their share (approx half) no matter what, but whats left for men after football takes 85 fulls??? not much.

however, there would be few college wrestling programs left, at ohio st football $ supports wrestling. Esp if courts rules the non-rev athlets have to be paid too, then they are all gone.

CLUB sports is pretty much all that would exist. Div I, 2 and 3 College presidents would drop alot of football programs and funding would dry up for non-revenues.



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Discussion Topic: Logie Putting Food on Gene Smith's Table
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 28, 2014

going back 6 years, i searched this from ow.net archives:

Discussion Topic: Arizona State Drops Wrestling
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on May 15, 2008

we all know Ohio St and other bigtime football programs bring in mega-bucks, nothing to debate there, we all know that. (and many college football programs lose money according to Sports Illustrated.)

as long as 85 fulls come out of the male half of the Div I college athlete population, not much is left for the remainder of mens non-revenue sports.

I've raised this point for years and no one has ever answered me why the NFL can get along with 53 man squads yet Div I college needs 85 Fulls ??? and WHY does every football player have to get a Full ???



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Discussion Topic: Logie Putting Food on Gene Smith's Table
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 28, 2014

Football should be pay to play. Wrestling should have 20 full rides. At least that's what goes on in a parallel universe with a more sensible populace.

Anyone familiar with the concept of a multiverse?



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Discussion Topic: Logie Putting Food on Gene Smith's Table
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on March 28, 2014

Hank: multi-universe, IMO, is a illogical (to me)due to the fact that one facet of it claims a net zero due to for every positive element (decision, word, or act) there is a negative one somewhere else. Aside from the fact that doesn't comfort my pain - or dampen my joy - when I experience them, it still does not satusfy a beginning. For as incomprehensible as the thought is to some concerning a theistic universe, it is is just as baffling to construct a universe that a) created itself, or b) came into existence from nothing, no matter the number.

One last issue for me deals with the thought of a net zero. I can't remember the individual who's lecture I attended, but his main point was that because there are an equal number of positives as there are negatives, we have a net zero. Unfortunately, I can't wrap my brain around that. And as I'm typing this, I'm thinking, perhaps that's the issue, I have no brain since elsewhere in the universe ... There is a me? without... a brain??????



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Discussion Topic: Logie Putting Food on Gene Smith's Table
Roe Fox added to this discussion on March 28, 2014

Quote from Dan Ransick's post:

"

Quote from Roe Fox's post:

"I can't give the answer on how much is too much and their are good points for the bonus made by Mike and others.

Still, at what salary -- like Smith's one MILLION per year -- does one do what they are paid to do without expecting more. His JOB is to make TOSU athletics as successful AND compliant as humanly possible.

What was the first million for?"



He does run the largest athletic program in the nation."



Right. So he gets the mill. That's a lot of money, at least to me. He needs an $18000 bonus, too?

Bob: I know you said if. So if upheld your suggestions may come true. I'm not convinced the "ruling" -- not a judicial decision of an appellate court -- will eventually hold up.



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Discussion Topic: Logie Putting Food on Gene Smith's Table
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 28, 2014

There is another issue--how Title 9 is interpreted. As long as we measure interest by assuming boys and girls have equal desire to participate, there's quandary. Originally, Title 9 allowed for other ways to measure interest. But the justice department during the 1990's called measuring percentages--and assuming equal interest--was the "safest harbor" for Title 9 interpretation. This gave unfettered legal cover to every school that wanted to cut minor male sports. Wrestling took a beating. So did men's swimming, cross country and gymnastics among others.

Wrestling needs a court ruling that looks differently at this ruling.



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Discussion Topic: Logie Putting Food on Gene Smith's Table
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 29, 2014

a sidenote, but related though to greed. How many good things have been ruined by greed?? and overestimating the power of an entity that thought it could prevail no matter what it did:

on the forums not one post relating to the once mighty NHSCA Seniors tourn going on now-- how times have changed! what a fall from grace, wow! from greed and hubris.

lesson, take no success for granted, be humble in success, remember who & what got us there, and how it can disappear with neglect and ego.



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Discussion Topic: Logie Putting Food on Gene Smith's Table
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on March 29, 2014

@BobP: I would love to see a line graph comparing Cleveland's population to the interest and involvement in Senior Nationals.

I say this because Cleveland's population has decreased by about 30,000 since the 1970s. Even still, the IRONMAN continues to thrive.

Point of Note: Senior Nationals used to be one of the premiere tournament dude to the fact that it was one of the only times a year in which top-flight talent would come together. Now, I can think of half-a-dozen in which some of the best of the best will compete.



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Discussion Topic: Logie Putting Food on Gene Smith's Table
Ben Golden added to this discussion on March 29, 2014

Mark: *due



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Discussion Topic: Logie Putting Food on Gene Smith's Table
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 29, 2014

i think u right Mark, too many events today, imo---

but NHSCA Sr Ntls was king for other reasons too, when it was hard to get into, and a wrestler had to be a state finalist (exceptions made for one class states like Calif, NJ, IND).... it was exclusive.

but to keep NHSCA Srs numbers high and the bucks flowing in- in the face of more events and city switching tactics that alienated people- NHSCA mgmt changed the rules. The once-high bar collapsed, now anyone can get in, just pay your fee and show up.

(re your ref to Ironman, imo it has thrived, in fact thrives more than ever, because it disregarded alot of bad advice from outsiders to move to a big arena, get much fancier & more expensive, expand everything. Instead Ironman stayed on a high school campus, kept the bar high, remembered where we came from and catered to the wrestlers & coaches that have built the event.) ...s/BobP



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