|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Finals Predictions
Tommy Rowlands added to this discussion on March 20, 2011
|
|
Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
|
|
"
|
Quote from Tommy Rowlands's post:
|
|
"To me it is simple. I believe the odds of winning the NCAA Championship with one leg are far less likely than the odds of winning the NCAA Championship with 2 legs. Actually, I don't think its even close."
|
That is true -- but its also true that the percentages of people born with one leg is far less likely than the percentages of being born with two legs.
What is incredible, IMO, about him is that he had the determination COMBINED with the natural athleticism COMBINED with a home environment that pushed him to be great. Even MORE incredible in my mind is that he's only been wrestling for 9 years (started in 9th grade)."
|
Brady, what I meant was that if you have one leg and you set out on a quest to win the NCAA Championships in wrestling, your odds, let's say 1 in 10 million are more unlikely than a guy with two legs who sets out on the same quest and has chances of let's say 1 in a million. Sorry to confuse.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Finals Predictions
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on March 20, 2011
|
|
Quote from Tommy Rowlands's post:
|
|
"Brady, what I meant was that if you have one leg and you set out on a quest to win the NCAA Championships in wrestling, your odds, let's say 1 in 10 million are more unlikely than a guy with two legs who sets out on the same quest and has chances of let's say 1 in a million. Sorry to confuse."
|
I'm a math teacher, my head thinks in #'s and probability. This post ^, is now speakin' my language.
imo, I'm not sure many guys wanted to wrestle Greg Jones with two legs.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Finals Predictions
Tommy Rowlands added to this discussion on March 20, 2011
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Finals Predictions
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on March 20, 2011
|
|
Quote from Tommy Rowlands's post:
|
|
"I like my chances winning the 285 NCAA Tournament with 2 legs as opposed to trying to beat Greg Jones at 184 when I was in college with one leg."
|
1. That is one of the ALL TIME BEST quotes on this site.
2. And since you put it that way, point well taken!
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Finals Predictions
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on March 20, 2011
|
I'd wrestle you right now Hiatt, with no legs and one hand behind my back. GRRRR
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Finals Predictions
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on March 20, 2011
|
Tommy: Do you think Mike Pucillo had advantage as he utilized a left-handed front headlock? If so, why? And if not, why not? Or is this a case of apples and oranges in your eyes?
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Finals Predictions
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on March 20, 2011
|
|
Quote from Patrick Campbell's post:
|
|
"I'd wrestle you right now Hiatt, with no legs and one hand behind my back. GRRRR"
|
I have to much respect for my elders to hurt them. :-)
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Finals Predictions
Tommy Rowlands added to this discussion on March 20, 2011
|
|
Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
|
|
"Tommy: Do you think Mike Pucillo had advantage as he utilized a left-handed front headlock? If so, why? And if not, why not? Or is this a case of apples and oranges in your eyes?"
|
Mark- not sure what you mean here? Are you referring to Mike vs Jones?
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Finals Predictions
Lamar Thomas added to this discussion on March 21, 2011
|
I think it is crazy that people think Robles has an unfair advantage. It's not fair he never had two legs. Did that stop him from being a national champion. No! He worked hard to get his strength it did not just come over night. He does tons of pull ups benches over 300lbs. You get 24 hours in a day. What are you going to do? His opponents can lift weights just like him. Even Robles said Ben Kjar was the strongest person he wrestled and he was able to keep the match close. It's no excuse for mcdonough. He was just not ready. You can do nothing but respect Robles. He had his fair share of losses also.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Finals Predictions
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on March 21, 2011
|
|
Quote from Lamar Thomas's post:
|
|
"I think it is crazy that people think Robles has an unfair advantage. It's not fair he never had two legs. Did that stop him from being a national champion. No! He worked hard to get his strength it did not just come over night. He does tons of pull ups benches over 300lbs. You get 24 hours in a day. What are you going to do? His opponents can lift weights just like him. Even Robles said Ben Kjar was the strongest person he wrestled and he was able to keep the match close. It's no excuse for mcdonough. He was just not ready. You can do nothing but respect Robles. He had his fair share of losses also."
|
I was thinking about that last night after reading others comments. He was not a 4x National Champ. So, there certainly was a learning curve for him as well. Fair enough.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Finals Predictions
Steve Lester added to this discussion on March 21, 2011
|
As I was watching Robles' final, I was thinking about what all of those folks had written about his unfair advantage. MY overiding thought, solidified during the match, was that they are selling Robles short! The skill set he demonstated struck me as being extraordinarily difficult to develop.
Being born with one leg does NOT give one an inside track to that national championship. NO WAY.
IMO only.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Finals Predictions
Steve Lester added to this discussion on March 21, 2011
|
"Kilgore! Someone on another site said Kilgore was getting worked over and then Foster pulled him on top of himself. Maybe I'm biased, but that's not what I saw at all. Kilgore got in on Foster's legs several times, and while he was unable to finish on the edge, that wall was likely to break down at some point. I'd be interested to see if anyone else thought Kilgore was getting "worked over."
Worked over? Killer was just getting warmed up.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Finals Predictions
Steve Lester added to this discussion on March 21, 2011
|
I couldn't help but smile when Wright's hand was raised. He began to win me over (as a fan) during the Big Tens. Although a lot a PA wrestlers are hyped coming out of high school, Wright and Oliver were VERY hyped. They lived up to it (like David T. will).
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Finals Predictions
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on March 21, 2011
|
|
Quote from Tommy Rowlands's post:
|
|
"
Mark- not sure what you mean here? Are you referring to Mike vs Jones?"
|
No. I was just asking, as a generality.
While I recognize that Robles has a disadvantage in that he has one leg, he does have an advantage that his opponents are forced to wrestle his style.
If I'm on top, a riding the legs is going to be difficult. It might not even be an option. Am I not forced to go to something else?
What is that something else... Something upper body? aka tilt, bar, wing series? Is that the same upper body that is the frame of a 157? It might be tough to do that if I'm a 125 pounder.
Again, I do not fail to see the disadvantage of having one leg. But I also recognize the advantage of his situation.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Finals Predictions
Rex Holman added to this discussion on March 21, 2011
|
I agree that Robles story is truly inspiring. If you told me there would be a one legged NCAA champ twenty years ago, I would have looked at you cross-eyed. The guy is a stud and figured out a way.
I remember watching Dan St John wrestle a one legged wrestle from Morgan State years ago in a dual and thought the wrestler was at an extreme disadvantage from a mobility point of view.
Everyone has positions in which they excel due to their physicality, kinesthesia, and understanding of the position. Robles is a highly adaptive, wise, and patient. He has taken a perceived limitation and created advantage, which is the equivalent of athletic genius.
As far as fairness, goes you are talking about an equal playing field abiding by a set of rules. That is where the question of fairness comes into play. I was saying that Robles has developed a distinct edge over his opponent, which is the point of preparation. He has developed a distinct advantage with adherence to the rules. It is intelligence.
There is no fairness when it comes to position. It is pretty much either/or. You either can or you can't and to some degree. He exposes his opponents relative weakness of position.
The relative inequality of strength of position predisposed me to judge as unfair.
I retract there being any unfairness in this case. Sorry about the lengthy discourse. I had to reason through it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
