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Discussion Topic: Since I have been told many times that this is an Ohio forum...
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on March 10, 2011
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What if Tressel is/was wrong?
I'm prepared for that answer.
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Discussion Topic: Since I have been told many times that this is an Ohio forum...
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 10, 2011
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Certain TV & newspaper reporters --and other small people we know -- show their own character in instances like these. They cant wait to pile on and they take glee in another person's failings. How pathetic their own lives are.
imo, coach Tressel -- a man ive admired -- really screwed up and let alot of people down with his poor judgment. No excuses.
but my own hands are not clean in this thing called "life". And i don't take glee in anothers failings & misfortune.
myself included, we all hope to be judged by the balance of what we do, hopefully more good over bad. Because at times we all screw up. WE ARE ALL FLAWED human beings incl coach Tressel.
i have a feeling coach Tressel's scale will tip heavily to the "good". s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: Since I have been told many times that this is an Ohio forum...
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on March 10, 2011
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"
but my own hands are not clean in this thing called "life". And I don't take glee in anothers failings & misfortune. "
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2 thumbs up Bob. That's what makes you an honorable man!
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Discussion Topic: Since I have been told many times that this is an Ohio forum...
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on March 10, 2011
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Quote from Lou Demas's post:
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"Just didn't seem to me that David Jones did not like being cynical, as he stated, it seemed to me he rather enjoyed relishing in his own cynicism. I don't know what motivates Coach Tressel to do what he does but I betting he is a man just like all of us and makes mistakes just like all of us. Maybe he did coddle Maurice Clarett but maybe he knew without football Clarret would fail for sure, Coach Tressel may have helped other lesser know player's who succeeded but this reporter gets upset because he evaded his question trying to protect his player. Has anybody even considered what the economic impact to Columbus had this broke during the season,maybe Coach Tressel did, Maybe he felt he could take the hit but how many people's jobs revolve around Ohio St. Football could they? Also, if one of worst things you can say of someone, is they are the college buddy who would lie for you, well... we all loved that guy!
David Jones should just admit to his enjoyment of being a cynic, if you don't enjoy being a cynic at least play Devil's advocate, Jim Tressell is either as slick, little con man or man who made some mistakes for all the Right Reason's"
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I am pretty sure what Sweater Vest knew is that with Clarret he had a better chance to have a better team. He might be a nice, though cheating, kind of guy but probably not a social worker.
What right reasons? If he was trying to protect the kids, then why not come out and be honest in December once everything had become public. And if he was trying to protect them by not sharing the email or it contents (allegedly), why did he start saying Tuesday night that he had forwarded it until Smith shut that comment down?
This guy just did dirty, and is only sorry he got caught.
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Discussion Topic: Since I have been told many times that this is an Ohio forum...
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on March 10, 2011
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"Just curious....any chance that Tressel did tell someone when he first received this email and that he's now protecting that individual?"
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You mean like Smith, or Gee, or both?
He protects them, they don't fire him. Quid Pro Quo.
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Discussion Topic: Since I have been told many times that this is an Ohio forum...
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on March 10, 2011
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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"Certain TV & newspaper reporters --and other small people we know -- show their own character in instances like these. They cant wait to pile on and they take glee in another person's failings. How pathetic their own lives are.
imo, coach Tressel -- a man ive admired -- really screwed up and let alot of people down with his poor judgment. No excuses.
but my own hands are not clean in this thing called "life". And I don't take glee in anothers failings & misfortune.
myself included, we all hope to be judged by the balance of what we do, hopefully more good over bad. Because at times we all screw up. WE ARE ALL FLAWED human beings incl coach Tressel.
I have a feeling coach Tressel's scale will tip heavily to the "good". s/BobP"
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Being a bit judgemental, now aren't we?
Small people? If that is what calling a cheater a cheater is, so be it. If that is what calling a lian a liar means, okay. He knowingly played probably ineligible players, cheating to most of us. He told the NCAA he knew nothing about it, lying to many of us.
Perhaps worst of all, he is willing to take LESS THAN HALF of the punishment his players got for their part. Way to be an adult. Way to be a leader. Way to be a molder of young men. Nice job Vest, way to have their backs.
The only person who looks worse in all this is Gee. Does he have any pride?
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Discussion Topic: Since I have been told many times that this is an Ohio forum...
Roe Fox added to this discussion on March 10, 2011
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"Perhaps worst of all, he is willing to take LESS THAN HALF of the punishment his players got for their part."
This makes zero sense. He isn;t taking anything. Let's forget my theory for a moment that he shouldn't be punished at all and the FBI is more powerful than the NCAA despite what many of yuo think.
You are comparing what happened to one man who was minding his own business when some idiot lawyer violated attorney-client privilege and sent him unsolicited E-mails supposedly implicating two players in a crime (for which they were never charged) with. . .
Five morons knowing you cannot profit from selling your junk and intentionally doing it anyway to a sleazy tatto guy?
Not apples to apples, my friend.
I'll agree the five should have sat for the Sugar Bowl (at least).
I do not agree the violations are the same nor should the penalty be. The circumstances are totally different.
It's not like he intentionally organized summer team activities in direct violation of NCAA rules.
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Discussion Topic: Since I have been told many times that this is an Ohio forum...
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on March 10, 2011
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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""Perhaps worst of all, he is willing to take LESS THAN HALF of the punishment his players got for their part."
This makes zero sense. He isn;t taking anything. Let's forget my theory for a moment that he shouldn't be punished at all and the FBI is more powerful than the NCAA despite what many of yuo think.
You are comparing what happened to one man who was minding his own business when some idiot lawyer violated attorney-client privilege and sent him unsolicited E-mails supposedly implicating two players in a crime (for which they were never charged) with. . .
Five morons knowing you cannot profit from selling your junk and intentionally doing it anyway to a sleazy tatto guy?
Not apples to apples, my friend.
I'll agree the five should have sat for the Sugar Bowl (at least).
I do not agree the violations are the same nor should the penalty be. The circumstances are totally different.
It's not like he intentionally organized summer team activities in direct violation of NCAA rules."
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Roe, I agree the circumstances were totally different. On the one side, you had some dumb kids dong what dumb kids do. On the other you had a (allegedly) moral, virtuous, high-integrity adult leader and molder of young men who spent eight months cheating and lying for the sake of trying to enhance his chances of winning. Different indeed, very different.
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Discussion Topic: Since I have been told many times that this is an Ohio forum...
Lou Demas added to this discussion on March 10, 2011
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"
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Quote from Lou Demas's post:
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"Just didn't seem to me that David Jones did not like being cynical, as he stated, it seemed to me he rather enjoyed relishing in his own cynicism. I don't know what motivates Coach Tressel to do what he does but I betting he is a man just like all of us and makes mistakes just like all of us. Maybe he did coddle Maurice Clarett but maybe he knew without football Clarret would fail for sure, Coach Tressel may have helped other lesser know player's who succeeded but this reporter gets upset because he evaded his question trying to protect his player. Has anybody even considered what the economic impact to Columbus had this broke during the season,maybe Coach Tressel did, Maybe he felt he could take the hit but how many people's jobs revolve around Ohio St. Football could they? Also, if one of worst things you can say of someone, is they are the college buddy who would lie for you, well... we all loved that guy!
David Jones should just admit to his enjoyment of being a cynic, if you don't enjoy being a cynic at least play Devil's advocate, Jim Tressell is either as slick, little con man or man who made some mistakes for all the Right Reason's"
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I am pretty sure what Sweater Vest knew is that with Clarret he had a better chance to have a better team. He might be a nice, though cheating, kind of guy but probably not a social worker.
What right reasons? If he was trying to protect the kids, then why not come out and be honest in December once everything had become public. And if he was trying to protect them by not sharing the email or it contents (allegedly), why did he start saying Tuesday night that he had forwarded it until Smith shut that comment down?
This guy just did dirty, and is only sorry he got caught."
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Gary,
It was David Jones who said, Coach Tressel was trying to protect his kids, all I did was point out that have may have had entirely different reasons than you or David know. You don't know if Coach Tressel has helped player's in the same way who were not stars as he did Clarett. For all we know coach Tressel thought this whole matter is stupid, the FBI was investigating someone for drug sales and they found that some of his player's sold some of THEIR STUFF for money instead, he knows they did something stupid but realizes the NCAA,Ohio st. and himself make a lot of money off these kids and he was willing to take the hit for $250,000 for them because it's peanuts compared to what he makes not only coaching but book deals ect. Again, my point being you don't know why he did what he did or his motivations. I get it, you don't like the guy but this is something really petty to demonize Coach Tressel over, it's not like he is Charlie Sheen. Most people are far more complicated than you must think and Coach Tressel is no different.If you think Coach Tressel is the plague of humanity over this, then everyone of us who has ever lied to get out of a speeding ticket is right there with him!
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Discussion Topic: Since I have been told many times that this is an Ohio forum...
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on March 10, 2011
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I believe that there is a big difference between fans or observers and haters. I can respect all fans, or people who make observations, even if they are in contrast to what I believe.
Haters should not be responded to because they don't add much to intelligent conversation. I have advised people before to not respond to Gary when he is on one of these rants, I think that was sound advice.
Gary, I respect you and your opinions, but it's OK to know when to say enough is enough. Your point is made, we understand you don't like/respect Tressel or Ohio State.
The conversation about this is a good one. It is accurate that he was wrong and deserves to be punished.
I don't comment on subjects just to annoy people. I used to do that, but quit around the fifth grade.
One thing I have come to enjoy about this forum is the honesty. Many true Buckeye fans were highly critical of the OSU team and staff this season, and chose not to be blind followers, even though they are still fans and supporters. This disproves the floated theory that this is an OSU-only forum. Opinions are respected when they are made by respectful participants.
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Discussion Topic: Since I have been told many times that this is an Ohio forum...
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on March 10, 2011
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The D1 college landscape is very difficult to navigate for coaches. Case in point, in the recent Sports Illustrated article about programs and athletes with criminal records, the data showed that Penn State had 16 players charged, Boise State 16, and Iowa 18.
I think most observers would be suprised that programs run by Coaches Paterno, Peterson, and Ferentz would have this many discipline issues.
What is the answer? I'm not sure. What is the issue? I'm not sure of that either.
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Discussion Topic: Since I have been told many times that this is an Ohio forum...
Roe Fox added to this discussion on March 11, 2011
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"On the other you had a (allegedly) moral, virtuous, high-integrity adult leader and molder of young men who spent eight months cheating and lying for the sake of trying to enhance his chances of winning."
I simply cannot make this jump under what we know now, especially when these circumstances were thrust upon him by a lawyer who was suspended from practicing law at one point (yes, Gary, a former Buckeye letterman I refuse to support blindly). Maybe later. I simply don't have the access to the investigation you do.
Kids who made a dumb mistake? You of all people have indicated these college students are adults. They are preached at constantly about these topics by the NCAA and the TOSU compliance office. They made a proactive decision to violate the rules. No simple mistake there.
Do you get the point Gary? Pryor, Herron, et al, just won us a Sugar Bowl for my beloved Buckeyes and I still think they shouldn't have played in it and am surprised they didn't get more. It isn't about protecting my team or I would be protecting them.
Interesting you question Tressels integrity and morals. So your position is that even if he did this wrong you throw out a lifetime of helping all sorts of people? Nice.
I appreciate many of your traditional moral stances on many things but if we start flogging on the public square all good people for human mistakes -- made under complex circumstances THEY DID NOT CAUSE -- who will be left to do the flogging? You?
This is college SPORT. It is not life or death. We have rules (not laws) we play by. If we break them we get punished and should. Yet, cam Newton wins the Heisman and National Title after what his family did.
Perspective.
Show me one quote in Tressels career where he has said, "look at me, I'm better than you." You will not find it.
And yes, under these circumstances I will support Tressel because I have seen many in his position and understand the quandry they are put in by others, especially when the federal government is involved. I also am personally aware of the tremendous amount of good Tressel has done for YEARS.
Your "community" of the perfect must consist only of you because I know of no one else who fits that description living today.
I am done with this now and look forward to when Tressel gets back on the sideline, regardless of the lopsided losses he has suffered in the National Championship game.
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Discussion Topic: Since I have been told many times that this is an Ohio forum...
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on March 11, 2011
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Quote from Ethan Moore's post:
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"Haters should not be responded to because they don't add much to intelligent conversation. I have advised people before to not respond to Gary when he is on one of these rants, I think that was sound advice."
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Ding Ding...we have a winner. You are right Ethan. I'm guilty far too often of answering fools to their folly. Every time we answer to this dingbat, we suck right into his silly game. Maybe this thread could just be deleted and future threads that simply have nothing to do with wrestling on the OHIO WRESTLING NETWORK. Just a thought. I moderate a site for steelhead fishing and allow a lot of stuff, until it gets off the main topic of the forum. You have to draw a line somewhere. Just a thought admins, not a complaint. Obviously I love the site or I wouldn't be here.
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Discussion Topic: Since I have been told many times that this is an Ohio forum...
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 11, 2011
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Angelique S. Chengelis / The Detroit News
Former Michigan coach Rich Rodriguez defended Ohio State coach Jim Tressel during a radio interview Thursday, and said that while the Buckeyes never negatively recruited against the Wolverines during his three seasons in Ann Arbor, others did and will soon be revealed.
Tressel and Ohio State officials on Tuesday night responded to news he had violated NCAA rules by withholding information in an investigation.
Rodriguez was interviewed by Colin Cowherd on ESPN Radio.
Cowherd told Rodriguez he no longer trusts Tressel; Rodriguez responded by defending Ohio State's coach.
"If you run a program at Ohio State or at Michigan or something like that, so much of what you do is public," Rodriguez said. "There's not all this crazy cheating and things like that going on that people think. There are some guys out there that bend the rules a little bit or they get around the rules and try to get a competitive advantage. I don't think that was the case in this at all. There were five guys who sold items who shouldn't have sold it. And they were wrong for doing it. Did that give Ohio State a competitive advantage? I don't think so."
Rodriguez continued: "There's coaches out there that are trying to get a competitive advantage the wrong way, a handful, and they seem to get away with it. And there are other coaches that are really trying as hard as they can, doing everything in good faith, and they seem to get nailed. I think that's the thing that frustrates coaches, like, 'Geez look at what these guys did, and they're winning and they did all that.'
"How do we fix that?"
Rodriguez said that while he and his staff at Michigan dealt with negative recruiting, it was never at the hands of Tressel and the staff at Ohio State.
"In my experience in three years of recruiting against them we didn't sense that, hey, Ohio State is one of these schools that are on the edge," Rodriguez said. "There were others we thought were doing that."
Cowherd pressed Rodriguez to identify those schools.
"You're putting me on the spot," Rodriguez said, chuckling. "I think some of them are getting looked at right now. So that will come out here pretty soon."
Rodriguez quickly added another emphatic defense of Ohio State and its recruiting habits, at least as it related to the Michigan-OSU rivalry.
"(We experienced) … a lot of negative recruiting (while at Michigan)," Rodriguez said. "People just bashing individual coaches and schools and programs, and I think that's a bad practice to do.
"Some people would think Ohio State-Michigan is such a big rivalry, they probably did a lot of negative recruiting. They didn't. There were other schools that did, but they didn't, and that to me sends a message they're trying to do things the right way."
From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110310/SPORTS0201/103100446/Rich-Rodriguez--OSU-didn’t-recruit-negatively-against-U-M--but-others-did#ixzz1GJ3HvA00
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Discussion Topic: Since I have been told many times that this is an Ohio forum...
Doug Brandt added to this discussion on March 11, 2011
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Bob, thanks for posting that article. It's nice to get some positive news about the OSU football program.
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