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Discussion Topic: Ohio's All Time College Team
Luke Moore added to this discussion on February 27, 2011
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I saw this on another thread, but what would be Ohio's best all time college team? Not Ohio University, but any Ohio native who wrestled in college. And remember, this is based on college stats.
I would try to form the team but know I would miss too many. I am guessing we could put Rowlands at 285 though. Ott at 125??? Dustin at 149?
Not too sure of the weights of Kemp, Fried and Deanna among others.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio's All Time College Team
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on February 27, 2011
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There's a thread over on TheMat asking about "your state's all time team. I thought about putting toether a list, but I know thee are holes in my line-up and I assume someone will do a better job then me.
There are some great ones. When you start thinking about how good some of the guys who wouldn't make the cut are you realize how good Ohio wrestling is. Guy like Don Horning, Ed potokar, Eric Kimble, Shawn Nelson, Clint Musser, Ken Ramsey, Roger Chandler, Steve St. John, Mark Marinelli, Brian Dolph.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I does Fried make the first team? You've got to think Jim Jordan is your 133/134, and the battle at 141/142 would be between 3X AA and 2X Champion J. Jaggers and 3X finalist, 1X undefeated champ Alan Fried. You also figure Tom Milkovich needs to be in the discussion as well.
At 118, I'm completely drawing a blank. There was the kid (I say kid, but he's probably 15 years older than me) from Buchtel than won a NCAA title for Ohio U back in th 70s. I can think of a few AAs like Horning and Russo, but no one jumps out at me.
125/126...I'm pretty sure Pat Milkovich won a title at 126. Ott was a 2X finalist and Adam DiSabito was a 3XAA finishing 3rd as a senior.
At 150 things get really crazy with Schlatter's title and three All American finishes, Lance Palmer's 4X AA status. I'd personally go with Jim Heffernan and his 4,2,1,2.
157/158...you've got to go with Kemp, but 2X champ Ryan Bertin is a nice back-up.
165/167...Toss up between Mark Mollica and his two titles (4X AA) and Joe Heskett's 1 title and never finishing less than 3rd. Heskett also made a World Team. Don't forget about Charlie Jones (3rd as a junior, champion as a senior for Purdue).
174/177 As much as I love Steve Luke,...two words, Kevin Randleman.
184/190 A few heavy hitters here, all 1X champs. Marc Colman, Rex Holman and Mike Pucillo. I'd go with Mr. Holman here, but credentials are close enough that it's really about opinion and what style you like.
Heavyweight is all Rowlands. I never got to watch him, but I've heard great things about Greg Wojciechowski...and I've always been of the opinion that Luke Fickell was the greatest heavyweight Ohio has ever produced.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio's All Time College Team
Ben Golden added to this discussion on February 27, 2011
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That's an awesome list, Michael. So here's your list based on current weight classes:
125: Pat Milkovich, Kyle Ott
133: Jim Jordan, Alan Fried
141: Alan Fried, J Jaggers, Tom Milkovich
149: Jim Heffernan, Dustin Schlatter, Lance Palmer
157: Lee Kemp, Ryan Bertin
165: Joe Heskett, Mark Mollica, Dan St. John
174: Kevin Randleman, Steve Luke
184: Mike Pucillo, Mark Coleman
197: Rex Holman, J.D. Bergman
285: Tommy Rowlands, Greg Wojciechowski
I like.
Fried I listed at 133 and 141. He's before my time of following wrestling, but I can't imagine that he doesn't make this list. From my understanding, it's just as likely that he's the #1 guy at both of the weights as not making the list altogether.
I added 2x Champ Dan St. John at 165.
190 is smack in the middle of current weights 184 and 197, so I split Rex and Coleman up.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio's All Time College Team
Brian Nicola added to this discussion on February 28, 2011
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Great lists. Just for the sake of consistency, the national news sources always do lists with the weights grouped as such:
118/125
126/133
134/141
142/149
150/157
158/165
167/174
177/184
190/197
285
Those weights were all adjusted mid-season (+ 7 lbs.) during the late 90s weight cutting crackdown, so I guess they just rolled with it.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio's All Time College Team
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on February 28, 2011
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Quote from Ben Golden's post:
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"
133: Jim Jordan, Alan Fried
141: Alan Fried, J Jaggers, Tom Milkovich
I added 2x Champ Dan St. John at 165.
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Jimmy is definately ahead of Fried at 133 (internationally as well).
I do believe Alan was a better wrestler than Jaggs (that's not to take anything away from Jaggs).
Good catch on Dan St. John!
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Discussion Topic: Ohio's All Time College Team
Luke Moore added to this discussion on February 28, 2011
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At 149, you could also consider Jake Percival, 4X AA, national finalist.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio's All Time College Team
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on February 28, 2011
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Quote from Luke Moore's post:
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"At 149, you could also consider Jake Percival, 4X AA, national finalist."
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I would look at Percival like Palmer. He's awesome, but just another great wrestler that wouldn't make the cut...a step below Schlatter and pretty far from Heffernan.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio's All Time College Team
Ben Golden added to this discussion on February 28, 2011
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Quote from Patrick Campbell's post:
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"
Jimmy is definately ahead of Fried at 133 (internationally as well)."
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I ask this out of sincere curiosity, because I was too young to have followed either of them:
How so? I mean I know he has two titles and one of them is over a young John Smith, but Fried lost to just two opponents in his whole career and made three finals appearances in three attempts. What makes Jim Jordan a clear favorite?
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Discussion Topic: Ohio's All Time College Team
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 28, 2011
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Alan Fried went 129-6 in college. And he sat out one national tourney where he'd have been favored to win (over T.J. Jaworsky or Lincoln McIlravy--depending on which weight he'd have wrestled--that's how good Fried was). Only the presence of Tom Brands, who was trained by the greatest coach in NCAA wrestling history, Dan Gable, kept Fried from being discussed as one of the all time best. Brands is a 3x champ and an Olympic Gold medalist. I think Fried was better than Jordan, Jaggers, Bertin, Heskett, Mollica, St. John etc...
My opinion of course. But any discussion of Ohio collegiate greats starts with Kemp and then moves to Fried.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio's All Time College Team
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on February 28, 2011
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"... But any discussion of Ohio collegiate greats starts with Kemp ..."
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A man after my own heart. Love me some Lee Kemp!
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Discussion Topic: Ohio's All Time College Team
Ben Golden added to this discussion on February 28, 2011
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Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
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A man after my own heart. Love me some Lee Kemp!"
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Obviously he has some half-way decent credentials, but Lee Kemp is no 4x Sectional Qualifier.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio's All Time College Team
Luke Moore added to this discussion on February 28, 2011
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This is such a great discussion. I am obviously more biased to the guys of the past 10 years, but its very cool to hear about Ohio wrestling greats. I never had the opportunity to watch Kemp or Fried wrestle, aside from some highlights. Anyone got some tapes for me?
Question for some guys that are much smarter than me, where does Mike Deanna fit into this conversation? 4X Big Ten champ, 2X finalist (maybe 3).
And will David Taylor be able to make this list in a couple years?
Also, what current high schooler do you see as being able to crack into the "Ohio's greatest" discussion?
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Discussion Topic: Ohio's All Time College Team
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on February 28, 2011
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"Alan Fried went 129-6 in college. And he sat out one national tourney where he'd have been favored to win (over T.J. Jaworsky or Lincoln McIlravy--depending on which weight he'd have wrestled--that's how good Fried was). Only the presence of Tom Brands, who was trained by the greatest coach in NCAA wrestling history, Dan Gable, kept Fried from being discussed as one of the all time best. Brands is a 3x champ and an Olympic Gold medalist. I think Fried was better than Jordan, Jaggers, Bertin, Heskett, Mollica, St. John etc...
My opinion of course. But any discussion of Ohio collegiate greats starts with Kemp and then moves to Fried."
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You'd be hard-pressed to find a bigger Alan Fired fan then me. I went to high school in Northeast Ohio and graduated the year after him and he was an absolute legend. To this day, he is the best high school wrestler I ever watched in person from Ohio (Kolat get the nod nation wide). I think Fried was a much better coming into school. In fact, had he not red-shirted, I think he could have beaten Brands that year. But it always seemed to me that Fried (like Schlatter didn't seem to really blossom in college. Maybe it was because he was so good coming in that there wasn't much room? Jordan seemed to really take off after his freshman season.
Now, Jim Jordan was no slouch either coming in. He had a better high school record as a 4X champ with 150-1 record and he won one more title, while both were 3X All Americans.
I got this from the Wisconsin website:
"Two-time NCAA champion Jim Jordan finished his career with 156 wins, the most
in school history. His 49 victories in 1985-86 also set the Wisconsin singleseason record. Among his many accomplishments, Jordan was a three-time AllAmerican, a two-time Big Ten titlist and a 1985 NWCA All-Star"
Think of all the greats that have gone through that program...Lee Kemp, Matt Demaray, Donny Pritzlaf, Russ Hellickson. No one won more matches then Jim Jordan.
Regardless, Fried's best year was when he was at 142 and Jordan would get the spot at 134.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio's All Time College Team
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on February 28, 2011
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Quote from Luke Moore's post:
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"Also, what current high schooler do you see as being able to crack into the "Ohio's greatest" discussion?"
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I really like to hear some of the seasoned college guys opinion on this one. Rex Holman and more recently Tommy Rowlands and Mitch Clark have been posting. I'd love to hear what they think makes a great college prospect.
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Discussion Topic: Ohio's All Time College Team
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on February 28, 2011
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For me the best current HS wrestler in Ohio, with the highest ceiling, is Bo Jordan.
Dustin vs. Lance vs. Percival is interesting.
Dustin was 1, 3, 7, X.
Lance was 4, 8, 4, 2
Percival was 4, 5, 2, 3
Dustin at his best was the best of the three, but he did have a non-AA season (obviously due to injury)
Lance had wins over Dustin and Metcalf (Schlatter didn't beat Metcalf in college, I don't believe), along with 4 AA finishes.
Percival's placed in the top 5 all four seasons. I think if he was a Big Ten or Big Twelve guy he may be thought of higher.
I think you could make an argument for all three, but at the end of the day my thought is a healthy Dustin is the best.
In fact, I believe I am on record in saying that a healthy Dustin is the best wrestler I have watched.
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