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Discussion Topic: Rep. Jim Jordan
Jerry Des Forges added to this discussion on February 25, 2011
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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"I'm absolutely with Bill on some sort of advancement based on productivity for teachers. As far as motivation due to money, that is probably a personal issue with each teacher.
One thing I know for a fact: the state of public education is abysmal. We do not provide our teachers or motivated students with an environment to succeed. Those that live in hudson, Beachwood, Indian Hills, Dublin, Upper Arlington, Bexley, etc. may be the few rarities. As far as urban schools we short change our kids by not expecting more and allowing the punks that don't want to be there stay there.
They ruin it for the good teachers and motivated students.
Oh, and we should do away with gym class and make kids play on organized teams after school. Every day. Each season.
I wonder what Rep. Jordan thinks."
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Have not posted in a long time but I may be rusty.... In regards to elimination of Physical Education (gym is where I conduct the course I teach or a persons name spelled really weird). Some schools do offer flex credit for students completing a certain number of seasons in good standing with an athletic team... Since I coach football as well. I know that some of my players do not get much physical activity during the course of the practice due to the fact they hide, do not have the skill level, or in some cases are just looked over. With the trends of obesity occurring in the United States- by eliminating the course that has the opportunity to curb this trend you want to eliminate it. So we will basically have a bunch of overweight test takers. How bout this solution (since there is research to back it up- check out the book SPARK). Make the focus of PE curriculum to be fitness (swimming as well if pool is available) oriented and giving the students the "life skills" they need to be physically active. The research states that test scores will improve through physical activity (Napperville, Il.)..... I have changed the focus of my classes to this and more recreational activities. I am doing this so my students are active and not standing around during PE also I think the stat is that only 3% of the population participates in team sports after college- but we have been teaching to that.
I know this is jumbled and all together- but I get pretty heated when someone attacks my lively hood and the passion I have for my students. Are there "gym" classes out there- yes- but just because of the bad few to not get rid of all of them.
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Discussion Topic: Rep. Jim Jordan
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on February 25, 2011
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Jerry DF: In my opinion, if teachers ran the show, our education system would be better off. Again, just sayin'.
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Discussion Topic: Rep. Jim Jordan
John Fayette added to this discussion on February 25, 2011
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Quote from Lou Demas's post:
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Quote from Bill Watson's post:
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"Racism itself is a form of ignorance, therefore lack of education is typically a reason for ignorance. I think a lot of people who are racist lose this in the military because they intact become educated on different cultures. I myself knew very little about the italian culture until I married my wife. I think that at the very least has validity.
After reading my post I see how you interpreted it that way,and that wasn't my intention. I apologize, however I still don't understand how more of a race makes for fewer racist people. As hispanics continue to enter the country in large numbers I doubt the people who are racist against them before are suddenly less racist towards them.
I hold firm to my opinion that with better education, less emphasizing on race, and a group effort racism can be further reduced. That said, there will always be stupid people and therefore some.people will.always feel a need to be superior, for a reason as trivial as skin pigment."
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Bill,
Yes, racism is a form of ignorance but in general it is a learned form of ignorance. Little kids play with other little kids of any color just for the sake of play, someone has to teach them to be a racist.
In regards to would millions of the black children killed though abortions help lessen racism, well did you having a black neighbor who you regarded as a grandfather help mold your healthy racial outlook? When millions black children are killed how many other little white kids did not learn to be color blind because they did not have a black neighbor. Do millions of Mexicans help lower racism? I would say yes, I had two highs school coaches that where Mexican, in the Marine Corp I served with many hispanics , one of my best friend was Dominican. If we did not have millions of people of hispanic decent here,my interactions may have been very few. Had wife been one of those million's of black children killed though abortion, my son would have been here. I have seen white kids walk up to my son with their parents, who looked as country red neck as they come and ask him to show their kids how to do his ankle pick. His little taking the time to show an ankle pick helps kids learn healthy racial attitudes. That interaction even helps his racial attitude, when he sees someone wearing a cowboy hat, boots and a big belt buckle, he does not equate someone being a red neck as racist.
Hope that made my thoughts on this clearer."
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Although I never thought about your points in this manner, one thing sticks out to me. Neither black or white women who have abortions (unless forced) were made to get pregnant in the first place. All of those women having abortions are not forced to have them. I am in no way in favor of abortion, but, they made the decision, and now it sounds like your blaming it on someone else. Is it always someone elses fault? The government didn't get those women pregant, they did, probably with some persuasive help, but none the less, two people having unprotected sex and when that happens women who don't want kids gets pregnant. Blaming the government for that is far fetched to me.
How about this as Flip Wilson used to say, "the devil made me do it".
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Discussion Topic: Rep. Jim Jordan
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on February 25, 2011
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Quote from Bill Watson's post:
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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Quote from Bill Watson's post:
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"I don't think a huge amount of black people voted for Obama because he is black, but some did. I myself am not black, but my childhood next door neighbor isa black man, whom I view as a grandfather figure . The reason I say this is because he told me that his barber ridiculed him for voting for Mccain, and it upset him.
Furthermore, I 100% agree with your stance on being raised to vote a certain way. My dad works at an oil refinery and doesn't think there is a bad republican or a good democrat. So I can directly relate to what your saying. However had it not been for cap and trade, I would have voted for Obama. I work as an.engineer at a coal fired power.plant so it meant a lot to me.
PS ...What do you think of the.healthcare plan? I myself would like to see.it set up the same as.car insurance. Protection from major damage but the small stuff is.on you. I think it would force Americans to live a healthier life style and make sure all Americans got everything serious fixed"
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Bill, you are sadly mistaken. Just as most blacks thought O.J. was innocent only because he was black, his alleged color was the primary reason most blacks voted for and support Obama.
Is that understandable? Perhaps. But it sure seems to be how it was/is. Why else do you think Obama played up being black, or at least certainly did not prohibit his camp from portrying him that way even though he was genetically as much white as black, and environmentally was raised much more white than he was black."
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I disagree on your OJ comment. I read Christopher Dardens book "In contempt", which is a great read by the way. In this he breaks down that a lot of black people thought that if OJ got away with something it was ok, because of the persecution people in his time frame took. Then Darden explains why he hates that people feel that way and even how he feels about race in general."
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It was fine that Darden feels that way, but by admission he seems to be saying that blacks sided with OJ because he was black. So even if blacks felt OJ did it but deserved to get away with it, that still sounds pretty racially-motivated to me if I am reading your intent correctly.
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Discussion Topic: Rep. Jim Jordan
Roe Fox added to this discussion on February 25, 2011
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Quote from Jerry Des Forges's post:
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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"I'm absolutely with Bill on some sort of advancement based on productivity for teachers. As far as motivation due to money, that is probably a personal issue with each teacher.
One thing I know for a fact: the state of public education is abysmal. We do not provide our teachers or motivated students with an environment to succeed. Those that live in hudson, Beachwood, Indian Hills, Dublin, Upper Arlington, Bexley, etc. may be the few rarities. As far as urban schools we short change our kids by not expecting more and allowing the punks that don't want to be there stay there.
They ruin it for the good teachers and motivated students.
Oh, and we should do away with gym class and make kids play on organized teams after school. Every day. Each season.
I wonder what Rep. Jordan thinks."
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Have not posted in a long time but I may be rusty.... In regards to elimination of Physical Education (gym is where I conduct the course I teach or a persons name spelled really weird). Some schools do offer flex credit for students completing a certain number of seasons in good standing with an athletic team... Since I coach football as well. I know that some of my players do not get much physical activity during the course of the practice due to the fact they hide, do not have the skill level, or in some cases are just looked over. With the trends of obesity occurring in the United States- by eliminating the course that has the opportunity to curb this trend you want to eliminate it. So we will basically have a bunch of overweight test takers. How bout this solution (since there is research to back it up- check out the book SPARK). Make the focus of PE curriculum to be fitness (swimming as well if pool is available) oriented and giving the students the "life skills" they need to be physically active. The research states that test scores will improve through physical activity (Napperville, Il.)..... I have changed the focus of my classes to this and more recreational activities. I am doing this so my students are active and not standing around during PE also I think the stat is that only 3% of the population participates in team sports after college- but we have been teaching to that.
I know this is jumbled and all together- but I get pretty heated when someone attacks my lively hood and the passion I have for my students. Are there "gym" classes out there- yes- but just because of the bad few to not get rid of all of them."
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Quite frankly you took my post all wrong. I'm not sure I can explain it much better. If you took it as a critique of gym teachers you may be overly sensitive.
I simply would rather see kids in organized individual or team sports -- which gym teachers can coach if they wish -- rather than gym class. It would serve many goals. But since we don't do it that way I am happy we have a gym requirement. What I suggest would probably be a benefit to your ilk.
"some of my players do not get much physical activity during the course of the practice due to the fact THEY HIDE, do not have the skill level, or in some cases are just LOOKED OVER."
Who's responsibility is that?
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Discussion Topic: Rep. Jim Jordan
Roe Fox added to this discussion on February 25, 2011
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My apologies to Rep. Jordan. I never meant for this post to go down the rabbit hole.
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Discussion Topic: Rep. Jim Jordan
Lou Demas added to this discussion on February 25, 2011
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Bill,
Maybe the facts will help clear this up,80% of abortion clinics reside in minority communities and the government is helping fund them. Black women make up 13% of the population but have 36% of this countries abortions. Whites make up the majority of the population and have a lower percentage of people on welfare, than that of black people, yet have more people on welfare than black people due to larger number of white people over all. I am saying something is obviously wrong here and that millions of black children are dying. Why don't we have 80% of abortion clinics in poor white neighborhoods,there are more poor white people than black people overall. Put 80% of all abortion clinic's in white communities and you will have more white women having more abortion's . Abortion slows down the integration process. Was your black neighbor a planned pregnancy to middle class parents? I know quite a few of my friends white and black who grew up in poor single parent households,they are all good people and I don't think they were planned children, in fact 30 to 40 percent of all pregnancies are unplanned.
John,
Your right everyone has free will, they got themselves pregnant they have choices, but do they. In most poor black women live in a community there medical services push abortion compared to the of white women who live in communities where their low cost health care provider's don't make most of there money from doing abortions. It's not a level playing field and again it slows the integration process. Why do we have zoning laws, why not let a casino, brothel, bar, liquor store or adult book store go in any neighborhood it chooses. Not everyone will become addicted to porn, gambling or become a alcoholic. Free Will? Or is it? We know that more access people have to these types of goods and services the more likely a greater percentage of our communities will use them and a greater number will have issues with these vices thereby tearing down the morale fiber of our community, just as abortion clinic's have done in black communities. Why does N.Y black women have 1400 abortions a day, they have more abortions than live births each year. Planned Parenthood does a great job of locating themselves in poor black neighborhoods, not really helping women plan their pregnancies but end their pregnancies. Thats where the money is!
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Discussion Topic: Rep. Jim Jordan
Bill Watson added to this discussion on February 25, 2011
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I understand your reasoning but I disagree with the very fact that an abortion clinic close to home hinders/promotes the decision to abort a child. If anything I would venture an abortion clinic as far from home as I could and hope no one knew I had it done.
Putting an abortion clinic in a neighborhood doesnt make people more prone to have an abortion, maybe the facilities are being put in locations they are used the most, if they are being picked demographically.
Lowes and Home Depot had a problem locating a place for all their stores. Each took a seperate path HD researched and found statistically the best place to build, Lowes just built by Home Depot. I think that if your correct, this is more likely than because they may not vote for them in the future.
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Discussion Topic: Rep. Jim Jordan
Lou Demas added to this discussion on February 25, 2011
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Bill,
You are indirectly making my point, Planned Parenthood puts clinics that push abortion in neighborhoods of poor minorities who don't have the resources to leave town. You may call it a good business. Poor white people may be to spread out for a business that make it's money off killing children. The founder of Planned Parenthood believed in eugenics here are some of her Quotes:
Birth control must lead ultimately to a cleaner race."
Margaret Sanger. Woman, Morality, and Birth Control. New York: New York Publishing Company, 1922. Page 12.
"We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don't want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population. and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members."
Margaret Sanger's December 19, 1939 letter to Dr. Clarence Gamble, 255 Adams Street, Milton, Massachusetts. Original source: Sophia Smith Collection, Smith College, North Hampton, Massachusetts. Also described in Linda Gordon's Woman's Body, Woman's Right: A Social History of Birth Control in America. New York: Grossman Publishers, 1976.
"Eugenic sterilization is an urgent need ... We must prevent multiplication of this bad stock."
Margaret Sanger, April 1933 Birth Control Review.
Right now, we have 13% of black women have 36 percent all abortion with more abortions than live births within N.Y city. I does not matter to me if that happens by racist design or or just good business model, it is still appalling! i just can't find the good in killing millions of children Black or White.
Here's couple of a question for you. If a 17 year old boy fell into a coma and his parents were told the only way to save him was to operate and remove a part of his brain that held all of his memories, the parents then have to raise him as an infant back to adulthood and it would take about 18 years to do so. Now his parents came to you as an attorney and say they want their son to die, they are ready to retire and don't feel they have the money to raise him again. The hospital is now this child's womb, his life dependent on the hospitals actions or inactions. Who should have the right to decide whether or not this child lives, the parents the hospital or society? How many of us would choose to die for the sake of our memories if we awoke from that coma and the doctors gave us that choice, our memories or death? The vast majority would choose life over memories, a choice an unborn child does not have.
If we all took a vote prior to being born based on the fact we would not know if we would be born short, tall, fat,skinny, asian, black, white or hispanic we all vote for rules that created fairness for all. Given this vote, how many of us would vote that someone else gets to choose if we live or die just prior to being born?
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Discussion Topic: Rep. Jim Jordan
Rick Wasmer added to this discussion on February 26, 2011
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Discussion Topic: Rep. Jim Jordan
John Fayette added to this discussion on February 27, 2011
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Sorry Lou, but I disagree. Making bad choices is what it is. To lay blame soley on your race or lack of this or that is not reason enough to me to accept getting pregnant and then deciding on not having a baby. I think your boy is a great kid and you have always been top shelf when I have talked to you, but this is way off base to me. I'll just plead ignorance and let it go at that.
As far as Jim Jordan, he is the man and stands for hard working, get it done kind of people.
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Discussion Topic: Rep. Jim Jordan
Christopher Henderson added to this discussion on February 27, 2011
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I'm with Lou on this thread.
But I also like what John said about Jordan representing hard working "get it done" kind of people. I really think that is the spirit that helped make America great and we should encourage that attitude some more.
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Discussion Topic: Rep. Jim Jordan
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 27, 2011
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Lou, et. al:
Many black women are born into a kind of despair that few of us understand. They are poor, ill or un-educated, lacking good role models, surrounded by predatory males (because that is how they survive), gangs and urban blight. One of the many things they see are young women having babies (in spite of the abortion numbers). Regardless of the type of community you come from, the constant is that people always want to fit it. Many women discover after having a child or two that raising children is difficult, expensive and time consuming. So they turn to abortion--an imperfect solution to a huge societal dilemma. But to outlaw it would just increase the misery.
The simplest argument to make against abortion is that it is murder. Ignoring the fact that it the same argument made by "liberal" death penalty opponents (who have at least as valid an argument), ok--so then what? What else are we going to do to change the environments in poor communities throughout the country. Have we ever been successful in this endeavor? Indeed, what politician today will tackle this issue knowing that their next opponent will tear them to shreds over wasting tax money?
Making the case that we are potentially destroying a future MLK or Frederick Douglass has the same ring of truth as the Ohio Lottery Commission reminding us that we can't win the big jackpot if we don't play. The sad facts are that most of these children are born into the same misery and are statistically likely to end up either pregnant, poorly educated and unmarried or incarcerated.
I don't know what the answer is but outlawing abortion is an enormously simplistic solution to a vast problem. Not to mention that it's mostly white men telling women what to do...but that's another side of it.
Generally speaking, the right wing in this country is making the same mistakes that liberals made in the 1960's and 1970's when it was hoped that simple solutions (forced busing, welfare as examples) could solve complex problems. Whatever you think, I can say with 100 percent certainty that all problems can not be solved with simplistic solutions.
As long as we have a two party system, and one party routinely opposes the other party as a matter of "principle" we will continue to get terrible policies that don't really solve problems. And as long as people place their politics above an interest in the truth--regardless of who's side it favors--we will continue to slide downward as we've done for several decades.
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Discussion Topic: Rep. Jim Jordan
Jerry Des Forges added to this discussion on February 27, 2011
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Roe:
"some of my players do not get much physical activity during the course of the practice due to the fact THEY HIDE, do not have the skill level, or in some cases are just LOOKED OVER."
Who's responsibility is that?
Both the student and the coach (I would say more so on the athlete).
Well as with most interscholastic sports- you work with the first teamers and second teamers. Do the others get their opportunity- yes. Do they get the same amount of reps- no. I am solely basing this on my experience with a team sport. So the fact they are looked over for practice time is on the coach and the skill set of the individual. Until an individual proves they have the physical abilities through position specific drills--- they are "looked over" when it comes to team scrimmage and game time.
With wrestling and other individual sports (cross country, swimming, tennis, etc) this is not the case.
The fact of hiding- I guess I could have been more specific- not showing up to practice, actually hiding (found a kid hiding behind the track jump pit previously- much like the bad news bears), going to see trainer on a consistent basis. Unless you focus on the one kid (of the 40 on the team)... some of these actions do go unnoticed and you are letting the other 39 athletes go by the wayside.
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Discussion Topic: Rep. Jim Jordan
Rick Wasmer added to this discussion on February 27, 2011
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