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Discussion Topic: tOSU vs Kent State
Mitch Clark added to this discussion on February 18, 2011
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I read the post a while back that Shawn Andrews posted regarding the fact that OSU and Kent State do not wrestle each other in a duel meet this year. Seems silly to me. It is the same issue that we are dealing with at Cornell. EVERY single year Cornell and PSU should be wrestling.... we didn't wrestle them this year and from what I gather Cael was rather apathetic/non-chalant about scheduling this matchup when he came to PSU last spring, thus it never happened. Now we all don't get the chance to see number 1 & 2 teams in the country wrestle. OSU should be wrestling Kent State every year, no excuses,it's too good for Ohio wrestling!
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Discussion Topic: tOSU vs Kent State
Bill Watson added to this discussion on February 18, 2011
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Mitch, what benefit does OSU get by beating Kent? Im a Kent grad and I love that the program has grown. That said, if OSU wins they are the big dog no big deal, yet losing is huge. To me dual meets can be misleading, isn't the idea to win the national tournament? Granted I don't have the wrestling knowledge you do, but I just don't see why that dual has to happen. Yet I feel Cornell is completely different, they have been in my eyes better than Kent and a loss wouldn't be as bad, but then again I am biased.
PS ... I agree on RH, I loved him when I went to a few Buckeyes camps, he made you want to come back
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Discussion Topic: tOSU vs Kent State
Roe Fox added to this discussion on February 18, 2011
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They should also be wreslting at OU every year. In this internet age of video and forum infromation people know who really is the big dog. TOSU can't run from the competition simply because its a down year. Even though TOSU is my favorite team, I support all Ohio wrestling.
Duals or a tri among these three schools would be great for the state.
Top level competition wouold do nothing but help prepare them for the NCs. I do understand the recruiting issues but it may look worse to potential recruits to appear to be ducking the competition.
The football team has had a couple of scares in the past aganst BG and OU. That doesn't stop them from scheduling at least one Ohio team every year. It spurs fans' interest -- and in football keeps revenue in state.
Ater going to the KSU-OU match and watching every televised Big Ten match for TOSU my personal opinion is that TOSU would lose solidly to Kent but beat OU. But we really won;t know this year.
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Discussion Topic: tOSU vs Kent State
Shawn Andrews added to this discussion on February 18, 2011
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Yes I am a KSU Alum, so that may be part of the reason I want to see them wrestle. However my Dad is an OSU alum, and I live in Central Ohio, I want to see OSU do well I just think part of that is wrestling schools like KSU. Central Michigan has been dominating the MAC for about 15 years. It appears like KSU has finally closed the gap. One of the biggest reasons is that they were able to start wrestling big 10 teams every year. Kent will continue to try to schedule big 10 teams, unfortunately Ohio State just isn't one they can get on their schedule.
Like Roe said in some ways by not wrestling them what message are you sending to recruits?
This year in dual meets Kent wrestled
Iowa State
Missouri
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Purdue
Pittsburg
Penn State
Lehigh
Arizona State
there were some other duals but these are the headliners, plus they wrestled at the Cornel Body Bar (a chance to see Cornel) and the Southern Scuffle.
Maybe this kind of schedule is why they are in the top 15 and have a chance to qualify 8-10 guys to NCAA
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Discussion Topic: tOSU vs Kent State
Shawn Andrews added to this discussion on February 18, 2011
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After thinking about my last post, I don't mean to sound so naive that by scheduling tough teams you get better. It is only one piece, obviously coaching but more importantly the type of athlete you bring in and the environment you create makes the biggest difference. I do see the college wrestling world through slightly tinted blue and gold glasses. That being said in the end I am a fan, and as a fan I would love to see these two teams wrestle every year.
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Discussion Topic: tOSU vs Kent State
Ben Golden added to this discussion on February 18, 2011
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It's a disappointing state of affairs if schools are avoiding scheduling rivals because they are afraid of the recruiting edge they might lose with a loss.
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Discussion Topic: tOSU vs Kent State
Greg Debbe added to this discussion on February 18, 2011
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Why is it that people are saying that Ohio State ducked Kent this year because they were expecting a down year? I have seen statements like that posted on other threads and it doesn't make sense to me. This isn't the first and only year Kent isn't on the schedule is it? I would like to see the match every year also but I don't look at it like Ohio State is ducking Kent this year specifically.
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Discussion Topic: tOSU vs Kent State
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on February 18, 2011
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I would love to see Ohio State wrestle Kent every year. Personally, a year like this for a non-Ohio State fan like me, would be fantastic to watch. But, I totally understand why Coach Ryan wouldn't want to schedule the dual. They wrestle in The Big Ten, no one can question their strength of schedule. A dual like this would be just to please Ohio wrestling fans and that's not Coach Ryan's job. His job is to make The Ohio State University a consistant National Championship contender. How does wrestling Kent (and losing) advance that singular goal?
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Discussion Topic: tOSU vs Kent State
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on February 18, 2011
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Every coach does what they think is best for their team. I know the OSU dual is important to Coach Andrassy and Kent, but it is not important to Coach Ryan and OSU.
No need to wrestle these duals, I will break them down for you:
KENT vs. OSU
125: Bedelyon FALL Touris
133: Paddock 9 Small 2
141: Skonieczny 5 Languis 3 (Languis improving)
149: Clopton 5 Grandominico 1
157: Cathell 5 Kusar/Nemec 4
165: Sponseller 6 Tice 2
174: Heflin 3 Johnson 1
184: Newburg 3 Magrum 2 (toss up)
197: Kilgore FALL Capone
285: Barlow 10 Stolarsky 1
Final KENT 27 OSU 9
OSU vs. Ohio U
Ramos 11 Touris 7
Paddock 11 Wojcik 0
Lindsey 13 Languis 5
Boing 5 Grandaminico 4
Nemec/Kusar 4 Kline/Gordon 3 (toss up)
Sponseller 14 Wilson 3
Heflin 6 Purdue 5 (toss up)
Magrum 5 Garringer 2
Schuth 11 Capone 3
Johnson FALL Stolarsky
Ohio 19 OSU 17
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Discussion Topic: tOSU vs Kent State
Mark Palumbo added to this discussion on February 18, 2011
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Also remember when kent was in the way up they would do a tri with Cleveland State and tri C. It would always draw fans because a ton of local kids would wrestle.
OSU came to northeast ohio one time this year to wrestle at Ed's.
Win or loose, wrestling with class in northeast Ohio will help get you more wrestlers into your program. I think when picking a school to wrestle for, a team score is not as important as a style and fit.
If a state champ from Northeast Ohio were look at OSU and knew that two or three times every year OSU would hold a dual in the area (NE) don't you think the kid would like to let his buddies (Parents, old teammates, coaches) see him wrestle. That might hold some weight in his school choice. Maybe?
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Discussion Topic: tOSU vs Kent State
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 18, 2011
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A couple thoughts:
1) Ohio State did not expect to have such a bad season.
Several months ago, this lineup appeared possible:
stieber, Paddock, C. Palmer, Nemec, Jameson/Sponseller, Jameson/Sponseller, Heflin, Capone, Magrum, Fortune. At that time, it appeared that lineup would be very competitive within the Big Ten.
2) I understand that Kent gets more benefit than Ohio State from the dual. And Jim Andrassy suffers from the occasional bout of foot-in-mouth disease. But if the idea is to strengthen college wrestling within the state, then this dual needs to take place. It draws a crowd esp. in NE Ohio. Ideally, you'd have a tri with OU, OSU and Kent at rotating sites. Add in CSU if their program can get more competitive.
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Discussion Topic: tOSU vs Kent State
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on February 18, 2011
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"...But if the idea is to strengthen college wrestling within the state, then this dual needs to take place. "
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I think that's where I don't agree. The idea for Coach Rayn isn't to strengthen college wrestling within the state. It's to strengthen Ohio State wrestling.
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Discussion Topic: tOSU vs Kent State
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 18, 2011
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Mike: That's his priority. But I've heard him make a number of statements about the importance of trying to strengthen wrestling around the state. Now, I'm sure Coach Ryan feels differently than I do about how one accomplishes this task.
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Discussion Topic: tOSU vs Kent State
Mitch Clark added to this discussion on February 18, 2011
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For starters, I am not 100% sure why they aren't wrestling Kent State this year. One can assume that Tom Ryan was avoiding this matchup this year but the bottom line is we don't really know if there were scheduling conflicts or not (especially since the NCAA is so restrictive on the number of dates allowed). I do know that during my 13 year tenure at Ohio State we wrestled Kent State, Ashland, Cleveland State and Ohio U almost every year (if not every year). It such a Prima Donna approach to say what can OSU gain out of wrestling KSU. I actually don't know where to start with this one but here goes:
1) Scheduling a duel meet should not be pending on the eventual outlook of the program if the favorite or more prominent team should lose. It is about putting your athletes in a pressure situation/hostile environment to help them grow as wrestlers.... KSU home or away provides that.
2) They are a short drive away and one thing I loved about the way Russ scheduled his duel meets was he tried to simulate an NCAA tournament. Wrestle multiple duels throughout the day, even if it meant driving to different locations in one day. It sucked for the athletes at the time, but it taught you to wrestle 2 to 3 times in one day just like the NCAA tournament.
3) Duel Meets don't matter!!! I like what Rob Koll said in his newsletter to the alumni after the Lehigh match. He basically blamed himself for training through that meet but cited that it really wasn't a priority to prepare the team for that meet. IF AN ATHLETE CHOSES KSU OVER OSU BECAUSE KSU BEAT THEM IN A DUEL MEET THEN ONE OF TWO THINGS IS WRONG.... 1) THE ATHLETE IS A MORON FOR PICKING THAT SCHOOL ON THAT CRITERIA AND NOT LOOKING AT WHAT IS MOST IMPORTANT, NCAA ALL-AMERICANS AND NATIONAL CHAMPS OR 2) OSU COACHING STAFF CAN'T RECRUIT VERY WELL (WHICH I don't THINK IS THE CASE) BECAUSE THERE IS SO MUCH MORE TO RECRUITING THEN THE OUTCOME OF A DUEL MEET OR SERIES OF DUEL MEETS.
4) People in Ohio and alumni from both schools want to see them wrestle (ask Rex) so Make it Happen!
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Discussion Topic: tOSU vs Kent State
Rex Holman added to this discussion on February 19, 2011
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Interesting points on competition. FTR, I would like to see the dual every year, actually the tri would be better with OU. There was talk (as there always is) of having an Ohio Collegiate Championships like there was back in the day. I still say that is the best idea. There is always the matter of Ohio pride and whenever you match up against someone from Ohio at the next level, pride is on the line.
IMO, The purpose of a dual serves two ends. To determine a winner and develop the wrestler. Sure there are lesser purposes, but at the end of the day those are the two that matter. To which end do you emphasize is really dependent upon your coaching philosophy.
I think a schedule needs both a mix of opponents from the strongest to the more mild mannered. This is in part to the different level of development of your team members. The frequency in which you schedule an opponent is as important as well. As Mitch alluded, you are going to wrestle two tough matches in the quarters and semis of the NCAA tournament. Wrestling twice on the same day against highly ranked and excellent opponents is necessary. This can be done in a couple ways, tournaments, tris, or duals in which you wrestle one place in the morning and drive to the next place in the evening. Russ did this and it was very productive in terms of getting the wrestler prepared. I think it is so productive because you really become focused on wrestling and nothing else, just like the Big Tens and NCAAs. The world is continuing around you but you are in your own microcosm of wrestling.
Also, when you train hard all week through an event and then compete, you have effectively been given the most demanding situation possible. The conference and NCAAs will be comparatively or less stressful because you have dealt with non ideal conditions.
Now with regard to Kent, they may be on the verge of becoming this decades' CMU. Andrassy and staff are showing that they are very good at developing wrestlers. They are beginning to produce multiple AAs in a year and the rest of the team is very good.
OSU's goal or at least it should be is to win an NCAA title. They will have to beat everyone to do this. This has been a rough year and it will be rougher if the NCAA tournament goes poorly. Winning a title is something that could be on the horizon but is at least 2-3 years out.
On the matter of getting your guys to peak, I would like to reserve judgment for the end of season. We need to look at the results of Iowa and Cornell at the end of the third day and draw some conclusions. I think it is a tale in itself of what is really going on in terms of development and philosophy. Koll sounds old school that trains his guys with a point specific plan (EIWA,NCAA) but with a group of veterans whereas Brands is picking and choosing his battles with younger unproven talent.
Again, I think it comes down to bringing athletes along at the rate in which they can accomodate. No two athletes being the same. Coaches, who have a team practice but with specialized attention to their respective wrestlers will get the most out of them. Much of what is done in practice can have a common basis but 10-25% needs to be unique to the wrestler.
Love the posts on here. Intelligent and passionate.
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