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Discussion Topic: Difference between Ohio HS format and Iowa format
Mike Taylor added to this discussion on February 8, 2011
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Living out here in Cedar Rapids has exposed me to the different way they do things here with respect to the tournament trail that leads to the State Tournament. Divisions II and III will wrestle @ sectionals, but Div I does not. There are 8 district tournament sites and only the top 2 from each district go to the state tournament. Here's where it gets interesting. They actually do a "true 2nd" format where if you lose to the eventual champ and finish 3rd, you get to wrestle the loser of the finals match to determine who the true 2nd place is. Of course, if the guy that beat you finished 2nd, there would be no additional matches b/c 2nd place has already been established. Statistically, the person who finished 3rd and is challenging the loser of the championship match is more likely to win since he's just come off a win and the other guy is coming off a loss.
I don't really care for this format, but it's what they do here in Iowa, so I just go with it. I much prefer having less district tournaments but allowing more qualifiers per district. Because of the format they have here, it is not uncommon to see a returning state runner-up not even qualify for the state tournament the next year. We had that situation happen. The 2 kids who finished ahead of him at the district tournament finished 1-2 at the State Tournament. Kind of a tough pill to swallow if you are the returning State runner-up and have to watch the State Tournament from the stands.
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Discussion Topic: Difference between Ohio HS format and Iowa format
Mark Palumbo added to this discussion on February 8, 2011
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I think in the NCAA, the MAC is the only touney to use the true second thing. I think it is a must, when you only qulify a small amount of kids to the next level through wild cards.
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Discussion Topic: Difference between Ohio HS format and Iowa format
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on February 8, 2011
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I have oft debated the true second thing in my mind. My only thing is when? What time is reasonable for wrestlers, coaches and fans alike.
Also, how often does it happen? I'd love to see a stat.
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Discussion Topic: Difference between Ohio HS format and Iowa format
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 8, 2011
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The problem with true second is that one could say the same thing about the difference between 4th and 5th in some cases. More to the point, the problem with the Iowa setup is that it punishes a wrestler very badly for blowing a single match. With four qualifiers, a wrestler can get caught and pinned in a spladle and still come back to qualify rather than have his season be over.
Ohio has a terrific state tournament set up and has taken many strides to make the qualification process as fair as possible. As much as I'd like to see a one division tourney so we got a true state champ, the attendance is much better with three divisions.
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Discussion Topic: Difference between Ohio HS format and Iowa format
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on February 8, 2011
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True second matches in the MAC are brutal. The round happens almost right after the finals, so you have a person who is thinking he will win a MAC title and be an AQ, and less than an hour later has to wrestle for his life... and usually against someone with a lot of positive momentum.
Brutal.
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Discussion Topic: Difference between Ohio HS format and Iowa format
Mike Taylor added to this discussion on February 8, 2011
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Quote from Ethan Moore's post:
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"True second matches in the MAC are brutal. The round happens almost right after the finals, so you have a person who is thinking he will win a MAC title and be an AQ, and less than an hour later has to wrestle for his life... and usually against someone with a lot of positive momentum.
Brutal."
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Exactly what we see @ our district tournament. While it makes for good entertainment, I agree w/ Hank's perspective in that your season comes down to a "one and done" if you lose. It is for that very reson I love the Ohio format in qualifying people for the state tournament. Additionally, you don't see the watered down districts as bad as you do out here. It is quite possible 9 out of 14 wrestlers from the team I help coach could qualify for the state tournament. At first glance, you might think we are a power here in Iowa, but the truth is we are ranked 8th and benefit from a weaker district than some others. To me, it reduces the sacredness of qualifying for the state tournament when your path to the big show isn't really all that grueling.
I think of some of the people that would have missed out during my time in high school. One name that comes to mind is Tom Tomcik from Norton. Many of you wouldn't know who he is, but my twin wrestled him our junior and senior years @ state. Our junior year, Tomcik was 3rd at districts finishing behind Hartzler of Orville and Ohio great Tony Pariano. Consequently, those three finished in that same order @ state. If I'm not mistaken, Mark Becks finished 3rd at districts behind Hartzler and Tomcik in 96 and wound up finishing 4th @ state.
I also think about Waskiwiez (sp?) from Twinsburg. His junior year he got the last qualifying spot at districts (5th) and ended up making a great run at the title eventually losing in the finals to finish as the state runner up. Never would have happened under the Iowa format. I think we can all remember similar examples of really good wrestlers who would have seen their season cut short b/c of the hand they were dealt.
I am very biased towards the Ohio format and love it even more now that they've done away with the potential "one and done" format at the state tournament. To me, Ohio will always have the best method of determining its champs...even if there are 3 per weight class.
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Discussion Topic: Difference between Ohio HS format and Iowa format
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on February 8, 2011
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Growing up in MN, they had the same set-up as Iowa. 8 regionals with top 2 going to state -- except, for a true-second match to occur, you HAD to lose to the Champ. If you lost to anybody else, there was no true second match.
My only problem with the current running of the Ohio state tournament is that the first round of consos is wrestled Thursday night and the second round of championships is Friday morning. For the second round of wreslte backs, this puts the loser of the championship round at a huge disadvantage -- which should never be the case.
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