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Discussion Topic: Buckeye wrestling this upcoming weekend (February 4-5)
Rex Holman added to this discussion on February 7, 2011
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Roe-
A shot in which you end up on your knees underneath a man with your head down is a mistake and was probably set up poorly in the first place. Bucks are lacking some good handfighting skills in the matches which they are competitive.
Glasser won the match because his tie ups and handfighting wore on Heflin and he created the offense for 75% percent of the match. In Kusar v Zeerip, Kusar gave up inside position for the last two periods. You can't do that.
In a nutshell. ineffective tie ups are leading to the loss of position.
The best Buckeye in recent memory of controlling ties is Pucillo. He was always controlling or putting himself in positions of control. If someone was challenging, he would break free and start over again until he got his tie. He was awesome at it his sophomore year. He was the the prototype on how you want your guys to wrestle collegiately from a tie.
I'm not seeing much good ties or handfighting right now, unless I am watching Iowa.
You need a good tie, which precipitates a good shot, and an immediate finish. If any of those parts are lacking, then get ready to eat mat.
Everything evolves out of a tie unless you are Jordan Burroughs then a whole other set of rules apply.
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Discussion Topic: Buckeye wrestling this upcoming weekend (February 4-5)
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on February 7, 2011
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Quote from Rex Holman's post:
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"
Everything evolves out of a tie unless you are Jordan Burroughs then a whole other set of rules apply."
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Quote of the day. (For me anyway.)
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Discussion Topic: Buckeye wrestling this upcoming weekend (February 4-5)
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on February 7, 2011
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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"Rex or anyone else who knows more than me (limit 10 please):
What is the best way to (1) score from an aborted straigh-on shot when the other party sprwls or (2) get the heck out of stuck down there. very common at the hgih school level and unfortunately too common with the Buckeyes this year.
Kemp and Johnson kept talking about the angles and I ge that. I think they are talking about not getting caught there in the first place, taking the shot, and getting out to the side.
I'm wondering what can one do to address the situation -- other than hope for a stalemate -- when you don't get in the right way.."
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I remember last year there was a video up on Flo's Technique Tuesday with Coach Rosselli. I think the title was "Don't chase a bad shot". If I remember correctly, it addressed some of the issues you're asking about.
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Last edited by Michael Rodriguez on February 7, 2011; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: Buckeye wrestling this upcoming weekend (February 4-5)
Lou Demas added to this discussion on February 7, 2011
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The higher level you wrestle the harder it is to get an angle on your opponent and come up to finish a shot. So a wrestler's options will be (1)Get out of bad shot very quickly, so you don't get worn out underneath your opponent. (2) Have A great front head lock defense that you can score from, this will make opponent more concerned with defending your continued attack than scoring or wearing you down. (3)Learn how to go to both knee's and finish from there.
This what the elite wrestler's do when wrestling other elite wrestler's.
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Discussion Topic: Buckeye wrestling this upcoming weekend (February 4-5)
Roe Fox added to this discussion on February 7, 2011
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"This what the elite wrestler's do when wrestling other elite wrestler's."
I never had to worry about this but thanks to all for the great suggestions..
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Discussion Topic: Buckeye wrestling this upcoming weekend (February 4-5)
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on February 7, 2011
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Discussion Topic: Buckeye wrestling this upcoming weekend (February 4-5)
Rex Holman added to this discussion on February 7, 2011
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With regard to Burroughs, he is neat because everything is from a loose tie up and his offense comes movement, change of level fakes,juke fakes, hand fakes, posts and reshots. Rarely does he get caught on his knees for any amount of time.
The match between he and Howe in the Midlands finals was a contrast in styles and fun to watch.
Howe does a super job of handfighting, closing the gap and hammering away until he creates enough of an opening to attack.
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Discussion Topic: Buckeye wrestling this upcoming weekend (February 4-5)
Lou Demas added to this discussion on February 8, 2011
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Michael,
Thanks for the posting the link to Humfey's 'Don't to chase bad position" that is a fine example of of what I may have poorly worded as just get out of bad shot quickly. Next, I am stealing a post of Craig Vitagliano that was posted underneath Humphey's video. This post describes with more detail what I meant by learning to go to both knees and finish from there:
Some wrestlers of today and many Europeans of the past were very good once they were extended. This is because they know how move their hips out and lift their head and back, and most importantly the lock they use acts as a fulcrum on their opponent's leg from which they are able to pivot and gain good position. Wrestlers like Nasir Gadjikhanov, Valentin Jordanov, and B. Saitiev were masters at finishing once they were extended with their faces on the mat. John Smith was also able to finish in this position.
Commenting on Coach Hump's limp arm (which I think is excellent technique): Just know that you are vulnerable for a sec when you turn out for the limp arm and your opponent can attack your leg. Once you know this, and your opponent does try a re-shot, you will (should) be ready to bring your leg back and now your opponent will be in bad position.
This is how Russian Alan Dudaev sets up his famous chest lock: he takes a shot and if uncomfortable quickly limp arms out and if the opponent takes his leg, he already has it back and now his opponent is on his face extended. As Dudaev attempts to go behind his opponent will usually try to improve and pop his head to the outside and as he does ::boom:: chest lock. It's truly a thing of beauty.
Here is the youtube address Les Gutches ducking Cael Sanderson off Caels front headlock; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuzEMulzxxM&feature=related
Sorry if the link does not work its an easy match find if you google it.
Interesting to note Cael Sanderson Finishes his first
3 shots from his knee's, then at around 5:55 sec mark Les Gutches take a bad shot gets caught in front headlock, then Les hits a Duck under to a Suplex.
If you take the time out to watch worlds elite wrestler's, wrestle each other, you will find all 3 of the tactic's I mention and maybe something I missed. The worst thing that could happen is you would have watched some great wrestling!
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Discussion Topic: Buckeye wrestling this upcoming weekend (February 4-5)
Roe Fox added to this discussion on February 8, 2011
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Thanks. I think Reece may still be at the RTC. Is his father? Its like the current team doesn't know these guys. I can't count how many Buckeyes ended up exactly the way Hump didn;t want them to.
Johnson and Kemp point this out ad nauseum when they do matches. Head down on the mat is one of the first things you are taught not to do. Same with head down when being ridden.
Good way to get out. Certainly having the quickness of Reece helps.
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Discussion Topic: Buckeye wrestling this upcoming weekend (February 4-5)
Roe Fox added to this discussion on February 8, 2011
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Lou: Great match to post. He avoids getting caught (I think) because as soon as he grabs the ankle he immedately sucks it in tight without regard for the leg. Touigh to sprawl from that position.
It is also a great post because Sanderson is doing what many are taught early with ankle picks and setting them up but he has perfected it.
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Discussion Topic: Buckeye wrestling this upcoming weekend (February 4-5)
Lou Demas added to this discussion on February 8, 2011
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Roe,
You might like this one also, this one shows more of how these great wrestler's would drop to both knee's off the shot to achieve better position and finish shot. In the U.S we, for most part, are only more familiar John Smith wrestling in this manner.
Arsen Fadzaev v. Alexander Leipold
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wA26f8mXks&feature=related
The good news is we have of two-time Olympian Plamen Paskalev coaching at Ohio St. ROTC. He is an expert at this positions and many more. Plamen actually beat Leipold in the Olympics.
An other great match to google is Saitiev vs Leipold
I think one one the main reason's the Russian's dominate the wrestling world is the learn more on how to wrestle from every position. The Russian's get in on a leg they have more option's. They might get out of a what we consider a bad shot or they might just hold on to leg drop to both knee's establish better position and finish from there. I think our mind set is that it is always better to come up from your shot where as the Russian's focus more on continuing to achieve better position from where you are at in relationship to where your opponent is. Some may disagree with what I'm about to say and I understand but I often tell wrestler's I coach that there really is no such thing as good or bad position in wrestling, there is only I do I know the position better than my opponent. I ask them, does your opponent have you in an underhook or do you have them in an overhook, does you opponent have inside ties or do you have outside ties, does your opponent have a front head lock or do I have a dump or this case as it relates to Ohio St. finishing shots, has my opponent stopped my shot or will I learn to finish from there because I understand this position better than my opponent. I was at a clinic that Andy Hrovat taught, he said the Russia's would train getting in on the leg, getting extended out and sucking the leg back in every day. I would say most rooms in U.S concentrate on coming up and finishing shot as preferred method of finishing and just how often does that happen on a good wrestler let alone a great wrestler. I am not saying you can't finish a shot by coming up, sure you can but wrestler's need to also focus on understanding how to wrestle a getting caught down underneath if they want to beat the best wrestler's.
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Discussion Topic: Buckeye wrestling this upcoming weekend (February 4-5)
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 8, 2011
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Lou and others: This is a great discussion with a lot of excellent perspectives.
I wanted to point out that Sponseller found himself in a bad spot against Minny. He'd taken a good shot, but found himself stretched out, on his knees, head outside with his opponent (C. Yohn?) trying to turn the corner. Sponseller did a great job of rotating his hips, trying to duck the calve, and when the chance came of getting back to good double leg position. By not panicking and constantly adjusting, he regained good position and finished the shot for two. This takedown probably won him the bout.
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Discussion Topic: Buckeye wrestling this upcoming weekend (February 4-5)
Alex Creech added to this discussion on February 9, 2011
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I have a question. With all these great wrestlers coaching at the training center, what kind of interaction do the Buckeye wrestlers really have with them?
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