|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Question on David Taylor's match in the Penn State v. Iowa dual
Bill Splete added to this discussion on February 1, 2011
|
I am watching the Penn State v. Iowa dual at 157 pounds. Taylor let St. John up at the beginning of the third period. They are on their feet and do some fingers to the eyes and some head-banging. After that the referee put St. John down, yet Taylor had already let him up at the start of the third period. I hit rewind to see if I was crazy but they were both on their feet at the break in action, then the referee put St. John down. He got two escapes in 12 seconds without any takedown. Did anyone else see this?
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Question on David Taylor's match in the Penn State v. Iowa dual
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on February 1, 2011
|
I believe Taylor took injury time for the second time, giving St. John his choice.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Question on David Taylor's match in the Penn State v. Iowa dual
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on February 1, 2011
|
That's correct Ethan. Very well done. Luke would be proud!
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Question on David Taylor's match in the Penn State v. Iowa dual
Mark Palumbo added to this discussion on February 2, 2011
|
That is why the Penn State coaches tried to get through the first eye poke without using injury time, but he was hit with it any way, Taylor may have asked for it.
I like the injury time rules to stop the abuse and gas tank issues, but on an eye poke can't the ref either call it illegal or potentially dangerous and not hit the kid with injury time? What if two more eye pokes happend? would Taylor have been DQ"d after four injyry times?
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Question on David Taylor's match in the Penn State v. Iowa dual
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on February 2, 2011
|
|
Quote from Mark Palumbo's post:
|
|
"What if two more eye pokes happend? would Taylor have been DQ"d after four injury times?"
|
If not called illegal and injury time signaled, yes.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Question on David Taylor's match in the Penn State v. Iowa dual
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on February 2, 2011
|
Taylor still managed to slip past St John by a 12-4 count. As a point of reference, St John had just beaten Jason Welch.
I recognize that Fittery and Hall are terrific wrestlers and have yet to lose but Taylor is wrestling head and shoulders above the rest of the country at 157.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Question on David Taylor's match in the Penn State v. Iowa dual
Bill Splete added to this discussion on February 2, 2011
|
Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't see the second injury time. I thought I was crazy, well may still be but this clears up that situation. thanks
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Question on David Taylor's match in the Penn State v. Iowa dual
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on February 2, 2011
|
"on an eye poke can't the ref either call it illegal or potentially dangerous and not hit the kid with injury time?"
I can't specifically address college rules but, in HS it could be illegal (and would hopefully be called) but a PD call would not be used. The reason is that we use that call is to stop situations before they become dangerous. In this case, the "danger" has already occurred.
The idea you propose has merit but there is nothing in the rules to allow for it. The other coach would be all over you. If the official didn't call it illegal, and the wrestler indicates that something is wrong, injury time is the only choice.
Speaking only for myself, if I am not happy with the way things are going, I take the wrestlers back to the center, remind them of the way the rules read, make sure they understand that I am watching, and resume wrestling. I can't remember the last time I had problems after that.
"What if two more eye pokes happened? would Taylor have been DQ"d after four injury times?"
Again, I don't know about college rules but in HS it is the third injury time out that ends the match.
To answer your question, unless the move was called as illegal by the official, yes, he would lose.
Since I don't have a horse in the race I will admit that I was a little surprised that the official (who seemed to have great command of the mat) allowed the eye contact. Of course, I am watching on TV, and not on the mat, so his view and take was much better than mine. I am not being critical, I just don't know what he saw that I didn't.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Question on David Taylor's match in the Penn State v. Iowa dual
Mark Palumbo added to this discussion on February 2, 2011
|
I bring it up because if one kid is getting worked over but the winning wrestlier has a couple injury time outs durring the match, what stops the lossing wrestler from trying for that last injury time, buy poking an eye and making it seem like an inadvertant poke. If the ref stops the action, he has to call something right? and if the winning Wrestler puts his hand and up to his eye must the ref start the injury time clock?
I'm sure you see what I'm getting at. I'd never tell a kid to do that, but not everyone is on the up an up.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Question on David Taylor's match in the Penn State v. Iowa dual
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on February 2, 2011
|
I understand what you are asking. Hopefully the official has better control of the match than that.
If he felt it was inadvertent, there would not be a penalty.
However, if it appeared to be illegal/unnecessarily rough/unsportsmanlike, there is a penalty to be issued. In that case, the offended wrestler is on recovery time (2 minutes) and if he couldn't continue, he wins.
It would all come down to the way the official sees the action and what he calls at the time.
IMO, it should never get that far.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Question on David Taylor's match in the Penn State v. Iowa dual
Ben Golden added to this discussion on February 2, 2011
|
|
Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
|
|
"Taylor still managed to slip past St John by a 12-4 count. As a point of reference, St John had just beaten Jason Welch.
I recognize that Fittery and Hall are terrific wrestlers and have yet to lose but Taylor is wrestling head and shoulders above the rest of the country at 157."
|
While I do think Taylor beats Fittery, I think you're perhaps not giving Fittery enough credit. He is wrestling absolutely lights out as well. He is 19-0 with 10 pins, 5 techs and a major. Fittery, like Taylor, loves to score and is very fun to watch. No one has challenged him this year. I can't wait to see him and Taylor go at it.
Here are his results:
1. Steve Fittery (American) dec. Rudy Chelednik (Army) 7-1
2. Steve Fittery (American) pin Eric Norgard (Franklin and Marshall) 2:43
3. Steve Fittery (American) pin Tom Timothy (Pennsylvania) 3:24
4. Steve Fittery (American) pin Dan Kolodzik (Princeton) 1:46
5. Steve Fittery (American) md. John Greisheimer (Edinboro) 17-8
6. Steve Fittery (American) pin #10 Jason Welch (Northwestern) 4:40
7. Steve Fittery (American) pin Dan Gonsor (Missouri) 4:30
8. Steve Fittery (American) pin Garrett Schaner (Stanford) 1:47
9. Steve Fittery (American) dec. Frank Hickman (Bloomsburg) 9-4
10. Steve Fittery (American) tf. Donnie Tasser (Pittsburgh) 15-0
11. Steve Fittery (American) tf. Alex Elder (Oregon State)
12. Steve Fittery (American) pin Kalvin York (Wisconsin) 1:17
13. Steve Fittery (American) pin Trent Weatherman (Iowa State) 2:13
14. Steve Fittery (American) tf. #12 Chase Nelson (Oklahoma) 15-0
15. Steve Fittery (American) dec. Te Edwards (Arizona State) 13-7
16. Steve Fittery (American) tf. Alec Williams (Air Force) 17-2
17. Steve Fittery (American) pin Charles Aungst (Drexel) 0:57
18. Steve Fittery (American) tf. Jaaziah Bethea (George Mason) 24-6
19. Steve Fittery (American) pin Casey Gordon (Ohio) 6:26
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Question on David Taylor's match in the Penn State v. Iowa dual
Fred Feeney added to this discussion on February 3, 2011
|
First off...in college wrestling, we tend to allow a bit more "contact" than in high school wrestling. But...with that said...IMHO, I thought that D.T. was "grandstanding a bit for the crowd and he was in the face as much as the Iowa kids was. I spoke to that referee the next day and he really didnt want to put himself too much into that entire dual. He did say something to them, sternly..and that ended the crap, especially after IT was taken.
What a great dual that was.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Question on David Taylor's match in the Penn State v. Iowa dual
Mark Palumbo added to this discussion on February 3, 2011
|
Fred,
If the ref stops the action after an eye poke, does he have to call something? (injury time or penelty point) or can he simply bring them back to the center and let the wrestling continue?
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Question on David Taylor's match in the Penn State v. Iowa dual
Fred Feeney added to this discussion on February 4, 2011
|
Mark,
The NCAA rule is different than the NFHS rule. In college we don't HAVE to penalize for a poke in the eye...where as for high school, there is NO inadvertent poke, this if the referee sees it..he MUST penalize for it.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Question on David Taylor's match in the Penn State v. Iowa dual
Rex Holman added to this discussion on February 4, 2011
|
thanks, great information.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
