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Discussion Topic: 197 lbs Kilgore VS Brown
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on January 18, 2011
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There's no excuse. The guy didn't just blow a call, that could happen to anyone. He chose to ignore the rules for almost the entire match.
This is one of those situations where it seems to be "results based". Since nothing went tragically wrong, it'll be water under the bridge. Just because neither of these wrestlers took it to the next level, that doesn't make the ref any less wrong for the way he called (or didn't call) this bout.
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Discussion Topic: 197 lbs Kilgore VS Brown
Grant Varnum added to this discussion on January 18, 2011
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as stated in my first line, i was not making an excuse for the calls, or lack there of...
just making a point that so often we criticize a ref for being too involved in the match/outcome, and here is an example where it went the opposite way...
how many times have we seen something like this, where we are not happy with the lack of input/involvement from a ref? usually it is the other way around...
i too, would have loved to have seen Dustin act with a bit more class/control (understanding that was next to impossible to do)...but he knew he could take Logan down at will - so do it, and ride him out, and prevent all of the neutral-position nonsense...no question he is good enough to do that.
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Discussion Topic: 197 lbs Kilgore VS Brown
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on January 18, 2011
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It appears that refs, like wrestlers, will get away with what they can, eh, Mike?
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Discussion Topic: 197 lbs Kilgore VS Brown
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on January 18, 2011
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I remember watching Corey Morrison wrestle against Indiana and deal with the same situation--constant hands in the face from his opponent. No one raised a fuss, the guy got away with it, and it cost Corey the match.
I think the ref was slow to react to what was happening.
I understand why Kilgore was angry. But...when you're up by 8-10 pts you need to be able to keep your cool. If you're wrestling at Nationals and the same thing happens, you can't go beserk (although refs tend to be more in charge at Nationals). Also, I understand Jim Andrassy's frustration but don't understand why he didn't call time to discuss the matter with the ref. If a ref is not doing a good job, lots of yelling by the coaches just adds to the chaos (lot of hindsight on my part in this regard).
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Discussion Topic: 197 lbs Kilgore VS Brown
Roe Fox added to this discussion on January 18, 2011
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Keeping your cool is great in a vacuum but if you are getting poked in the eye, you know one of the best 197 lbrs. in recent memory almost lost his eyesight because of this (with a movie made about it), and the ref isn't protecting you, you have to protect yourself.
What's the option? Quitting? I don't think he should have tried the kick. Terrible. I didn't mind the aggressive cross-faces. The ref didn't call it. Maybe it sent a message. Maybe not. But you cannot just keep putting yourself at risk if the ref is doing nothing.
I am a HUGE rule guy -- but they have to be enforced. For instance, I cannot stand much of what some of the Iowa guys do under Brands. But this may have been self-preservation.
I've been there once in my life in organized sports. You don't wait for the time it mames you. You try to stop it within the rules. If not, so be it.
Kilgore was telling the ref repeatedly and he wasn't listening. I am surprised he exercised the self-restaint he did. He was put in a no win situation. . . except of course he won.
The good news? When they face each other again I bet Kilgore waxes him. And the match will be officiated tightly which will benefit Kilgore because he is technically the far superior wrestler.
Sports are great on many levels, mainly because we have rules. Otherwise, its just MMA. If you're going to stand there with your whistle in your pocket you shouldn't ref anything so big.
Fred's making the right call. This could have been serious. These are big powerful athletes.
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Last edited by Roe Fox on January 19, 2011; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: 197 lbs Kilgore VS Brown
Ben Golden added to this discussion on January 18, 2011
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This is not Nam, this is wrestling. There are rules.
Has the whole world gone crazy?! Am I the only one who gives a ... about the rules here?!?!
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Discussion Topic: 197 lbs Kilgore VS Brown
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on January 18, 2011
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Quote from Ben Golden's post:
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"This is not Nam, this is wrestling. There are rules.
Has the whole world gone crazy?! Am I the only one who gives a ... about the rules here?!?!"
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No. I am sure Gary Sommers does.
Just razzing. Relax.
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Discussion Topic: 197 lbs Kilgore VS Brown
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on January 19, 2011
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MMA actually does a very good job protecting the athletes. I watch a lot and the officials are very quick to stop the action when someone is in trouble. It's much more well officiated than boxing.
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Discussion Topic: 197 lbs Kilgore VS Brown
Ben Golden added to this discussion on January 19, 2011
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Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
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"
No. I am sure Gary Sommers does.
Just razzing. Relax."
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Ahhh it was an ill received allusion to The Big Lebowski.
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Last edited by Ben Golden on January 20, 2011; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: 197 lbs Kilgore VS Brown
Alex Creech added to this discussion on January 19, 2011
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Quote from Ben Golden's post:
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"
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Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
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"
No. I am sure Gary Sommers does.
Just razzing. Relax."
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Ahhh it was an ill received allusion to comedy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiQmQhA-OrM"
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Hhahahahha........excellent.
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Discussion Topic: 197 lbs Kilgore VS Brown
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on January 19, 2011
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Kilgore seems like a great young man, always smiling in interviews on GOhio and Flo. Seems like it would take a lot to make him angry.
It almost seems like Kilgore doesn't realize his own strength, everything he does looks like it would hurt. Out of my 'Top People I would not want mad at me because they could pound me into submission' list, Kilgore ranks pretty high.
Ironically, Brown seemed almost emotionless throughout, and after, the match.
And, as always, Zeb's commentary makes the match more fun.
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Discussion Topic: 197 lbs Kilgore VS Brown
Fred Feeney added to this discussion on January 19, 2011
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Mark Niemann...you just aren't right. :)
(where do you get these???)
It is about rules...but that surely is another discussion: Do you want all rules in wrestling used all the time? Could be very interesting discussion.
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Discussion Topic: 197 lbs Kilgore VS Brown
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on January 19, 2011
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My bad, Ben. I did not have that in my comedy repertoire! I am now more enlightened. Thank you.
I do know the feeling, though. Recall my "rapist's wit" comment!!! Ha ha ha...
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Discussion Topic: 197 lbs Kilgore VS Brown
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on January 19, 2011
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Lotta "F" words there, Ben.
...lotte "F" words...
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Discussion Topic: 197 lbs Kilgore VS Brown
Ben Golden added to this discussion on January 20, 2011
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You're right, Mark. I apologize.
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