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Discussion Topic: A few thoughts from the weekend
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on January 10, 2011
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Quote from Rex Holman's post:
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"This is why I love this site, people know their wrestling."
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Thanks, Rex.
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Discussion Topic: A few thoughts from the weekend
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on January 12, 2011
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As I understand the conversation, Mike and Hank like Caldwell. Rex and I like Dake.
The only way to settle this is a tag-team wrestling match between the opposing sides. Best of 5 take downs.
Rex - you're going first for our team. Let me know when you need me.
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Discussion Topic: A few thoughts from the weekend
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on January 12, 2011
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Quote from Ethan Moore's post:
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"As I understand the conversation, Mike and Hank like Caldwell. Rex and I like Dake.
The only way to settle this is a tag-team wrestling match between the opposing sides. Best of 5 take downs.
Rex - you're going first for our team. Let me know when you need me."
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I'll join the Dake side. I like his mat wrestling better than Caldwell's.
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Discussion Topic: A few thoughts from the weekend
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on January 12, 2011
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Oooh! A handicap match! I like your style Mr. Hiatt...
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Discussion Topic: A few thoughts from the weekend
Rex Holman added to this discussion on January 12, 2011
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Ethan-
I would like to ride the proverbial fence on this one as I see it being contingent upon Dake showing up as the machine he was last year and Caldwell making some attempts that don't score immediately. If Caldwell score two tds, he wins. If Dake can nullify Caldwell's offense, he wins. I can't wait to see Dake come out in his three point stance. That alone to me is just saying your not getting to my leg without a scramble of which I am well versed. If both guys are on their A game, then this will be the most interesting match of the finals.
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Discussion Topic: A few thoughts from the weekend
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on January 12, 2011
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How many of the "Dake side" would pick Dake in a match against Metcalf? How soon we forget that Caldwell capped off his last season with an undefeated record, an 11-6 win over a dominant defending National Champion and scores at the NCAA Championships of a Fall in 3:32, 10-2, 10-1 and 13-2.
Dake is a fantastic talent. He will win another title in his great career, but it won't be this year. Unless Caldwell has taken a step backwards, he is simply better.
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Discussion Topic: A few thoughts from the weekend
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on January 12, 2011
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Mike: Let's not back down from this challenge. You take on Rex. I'll go against Ethan.
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Discussion Topic: A few thoughts from the weekend
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on January 12, 2011
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No offense to Ethan, but why do I have to "take on" Rex?
As far as Rex's assertion that Dake will win and why, it's hard to argue with his points. I guess I would go back to that old boxing quote, I think it was Tyson back in his glory days: "Everybody's got a plan until they hit".
I think Dake will try to wrestle in the manner that Mr. Holman points out. I think his coaches will try to set him up for victory by implimenting a stratigy that favors Dake. I just think it won't work because Caldwell is more athletic and a better wrestler. It's very tough to beat someone who has better physical gifts than you, and has better command of technique and is willing to push the pace and try to score.
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Discussion Topic: A few thoughts from the weekend
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on January 12, 2011
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"How many of the "Dake side" would pick Dake in a match against Metcalf? How soon we forget that Caldwell capped off his last season with an undefeated record, an 11-6 win over a dominant defending National Champion and scores at the NCAA Championships of a Fall in 3:32, 10-2, 10-1 and 13-2.
Dake is a fantastic talent. He will win another title in his great career, but it won't be this year. Unless Caldwell has taken a step backwards, he is simply better."
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Transitive property doesn't apply in sports. Also, do you forget the thrashing Metcalf gave him in the All-Star match?
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Last edited by Brady Hiatt on January 12, 2011; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: A few thoughts from the weekend
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on January 12, 2011
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Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
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"Oooh! A handicap match! I like your style Mr. Hiatt..."
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I'll be the one bring the folding chair.
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Discussion Topic: A few thoughts from the weekend
Mike Leedy added to this discussion on January 12, 2011
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I doubted Caldwell the last time...
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Discussion Topic: A few thoughts from the weekend
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on January 12, 2011
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Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
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"Transitive property doesn't apply in sports. Also, do you forget the thrashing Metcalf gave him in the All-Star match?"
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I agree with you on the transitive property and I didn't forget the beating at All Star. The reason I brought up Metcalf is I think most people would consider Metcalf a strong favorite in that match, even though he was dominated twice by Caldwell. It speaks to the lack of respect that Caldwell seems to be getting.
As far as the All Star...while it doesn't mean nothing, it was an exibition. When the matches mattered, Caldwell is 2-0 with an 11-6 win and a fall. I assume if Dake and Calwell meet, the match will matter.
I see Dake this year as simlar to sophomore or junior Dustin Schlatter. Defending champ, amazing skills, but the field has caught up to him a bit. I also think a red-shirt senior Darrion Caldwell is significantly better than anyone Dake (or Schlatter for that matter) has faced up to this point in his career.
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Discussion Topic: A few thoughts from the weekend
Steve Lester added to this discussion on January 12, 2011
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Who was that guy that I watched throw a standing spladdle on Metcalf in the Eds' gym? He was pretty swift.
Is that something Dake could do?
Merely asking....
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Discussion Topic: A few thoughts from the weekend
Ben Golden added to this discussion on January 12, 2011
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I'll take a healthy Caldwell over Dake 4 times out of 5. I'd probably take an 80% Caldwell over Dake, honestly, and I don't mean this to knock on Dake. Dake is great, but Caldwell is an unusually flexible and strong (in a weird way) and has refined his methods. He is strong from body positions you don't expect a guy to be strong from. I also don't think Dake is a better scrambler.
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Discussion Topic: A few thoughts from the weekend
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on January 12, 2011
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Caldwell's junior season was about as fine as it gets. Undefeated? check. Dominating wins most of the season (including a complete dismantling of the tough-as-an-anvil Lance Palmer)? Check. A convincing win over the nearly always dominant Brent Metcalf? Check. A brilliant follow up performance at the USA World Team Trials freestyle event where he defeated Doug Schwab and finished a strong third? Check. Prior to his shoulder injury, I saw Caldwell as the best young wrestler in America and our best future hope for Olympic gold. That may still be true.
Yet...there have been times in the past where a wrestler seemed primed for years of dominance and then got beat. It happens--especially in folkstyle where the ability to slow down an opponent (see Mark Perry over the much better Johnny Hendricks) can make all the difference. I still think Dake is not in the same league as Caldwell. But it would be folly not to consider the possibility of Dake being able to pull off the upset.
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