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Discussion Topic: I'm for Tom Ryan
Scott Nicola added to this discussion on December 20, 2010
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Alot of people are down on Coach Ryan and the Bucks. How soon we forget the 2 best finishes in Buckeye Wrestling history. Definitely a transitional period that will be a test for the team and coaches. Call me an optimist or homer) but I think they right the ship and finish with a couple AA this year and a reloaded lineup next year and in the future. Go Bucks!
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Discussion Topic: I'm for Tom Ryan
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on December 20, 2010
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Discussion Topic: I'm for Tom Ryan
Brad Perkins added to this discussion on December 21, 2010
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Coach Ryan and his staff brought excitement and hope to the Ohio State program that was not seen before. Yes, this season has been disappointing, but would still take Coach Ryan over any other coach to run the program. He is a class act, cares about his athletes, and will get the team back near the top in the near future.
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Discussion Topic: I'm for Tom Ryan
Freddy Carr added to this discussion on December 21, 2010
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I'm with Coach Ryan as well. I expected a down year, somewhere in the bottom half of the "B1G". You add the injuries on top of everything and this really isn't a surprise.
Some great kids in the pipeline, some great coaches in the room. I see no reason why OSU can't work themselves back into the top 10 within 2 years.
This too shall pass.
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Discussion Topic: I'm for Tom Ryan
Rex Holman added to this discussion on December 21, 2010
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Let's hold hands and sing Kum ba yah
Sorry, I could not help myself with this post.
It seems that people are just dealing with the pain of losing. Almost a grieving process. Denial(this can't be happening), anger(this sucks), bargaining(wait til next year), depression(this is really a downer), acceptance(it is what it is, what can I do.
Coaching is tough stuff. Pinning your hopes and dreams on post adolescents who may or may not be willing or able to make significant contribution toward the overall cause.
This year is reminiscient of some the Hellickson years. It feels like the Bucks need someone to step up and AA in order to save face.
Having Stieber out-----hurts, really bad!
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Discussion Topic: I'm for Tom Ryan
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on December 21, 2010
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Rex made a funny!
If you need me to play the guitar for this song, I can! However, do know, that if I AM playing the guitar, I will not be able to hold your hand, Rex.
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Discussion Topic: I'm for Tom Ryan
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on December 21, 2010
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First off, I've shied away from these posts because I know people know I'm not a fan of tOSU and reading Gary's posts over the last several months has made me see that my constant hammering of tOSU on an Ohio forum makes me look like a dick. So I'm approaching this as a guy who loves Ohio High School wrestling and has been a fan of many of the wrestlers on this team over the years.
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Quote from Scott Nicola's post:
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"Call me an optimist or homer) but I think they right the ship and finish with a couple AA this year and a reloaded lineup next year and in the future. Go Bucks!"
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Who on this team is an All American this year?
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Quote from Brad Perkins's post:
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"Coach Ryan and his staff brought excitement and hope to the Ohio State program that was not seen before."
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I don't think that's true. There was a great deal of excitment surrounding Russ Helleckson taking over the program...followed by the transfer of Mark Colman and a few great recruiting years that lead to couple top five type teams. DiSabato, Marinelli, Ramsey, Schyck, Randleman and then the transfer of Holman. I think people forget ho good those early Helleckson teams were.
Where they as close to Iowa has Coach Ryan's two runner-up teams were? No. But those Iowa teams were MUCH MUCH better than the teams they have fielded in recent times.
My point is, Both Coach Ryan and Coach Helleckson were able to come in and bring the program up very quickly to levels it had previously not attained.
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Quote from Freddy Carr's post:
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"I'm with Coach Ryan as well. I expected a down year, somewhere in the bottom half of the "B1G". You add the injuries on top of everything and this really isn't a surprise....This too shall pass."
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Here's where I run itno a little bit of a problem. Ohio State fans "expected a down year". Maybe not this far down, but regardless. Why? You have one of the top Universities in the world, great facilities, a top-notch Head coach with one of the best Assistants out there. You have the best recruiting ground in America with Ohio and PA next door, and you wrestle in the best conference. You shouldn't have "down years". You should be consistantly very good, top five often and contenders every few years. Anything else should be unacceptable.
What do you think the Ohio State faithful would do if the football team was this bad? They'd give Tressel a year or two to right the ship, but he's won a National Title and been near the top of college football (playing in BCS games) almost every year.
I'm not saying Coach Ryan should be fired. I think he's a great coach and by all accounts a man of good character. I do think that the lack of depth on this team is clearly an issue, and that the way the staff recruits depth needs to rethought. I also think, as I always have, that Ohio State loses too much blue chip talent. Ty Mitch, Jamie Clark, Zach Neibert, Brian Stephens, Jessie Dong, David Taylor, Jedd Moore, Eric Cubberly, Ben Jordan, the Thomusseit brothers, Chris Honeycutt, Dustin Kligore...the list goes on and on. I know you can't get them all, but Ohio State needs to get a lot more of them if they're going to be a consistant winner.
Finally, I think the loss of Joe Heskett and Tommy Rowlands needs to be looked at as well. Those two guys were both World Team members and top level assistants with years of experience and a solid street cred when it comes to recuiting.
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Last edited by Michael Rodriguez on December 21, 2010; edited 7 times in total
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Discussion Topic: I'm for Tom Ryan
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on December 21, 2010
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Coach Ryan has earned patience from the fan base, he has done a great job and is a strong program leader.
But saying you're disappointed with the performance of the team does not mean you dislike Coach Ryan. Fans expressing concern and disappointment during tough times is indicative of a successful program, and is, to an extent, healthy.
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Discussion Topic: I'm for Tom Ryan
Rex Holman added to this discussion on December 21, 2010
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Mike-
As usual, I agree with most of your logic. It is solid.
The Buckeyes should be top 10 every year and make a run at a title every 3-4 years. This expectation is valid and very difficult to accomplish. But being tOSU should carry a lot of weight as it is the 500lb gorilla.
You win and lose with who you recruit and how they develop.
The development matter is the issue which pains me the most. Having gone through the quagmire and emerging. I feel that development is of three types, technical, mental and physical. A balance must be struck between all three. In order to achieve a level of proficiency, wrestlers need individualized plans which address their needs.
Colt is a guy who was physically and mentally ready. However, IMO, he had glaring holes in his technical skillset which were/are addressable.
Having World Team members to train with does not ensure anything! Maybe they will kick everyone's arse on a daily basis, that is sure to make everyone better, right? No, not so much. You have to have a skillset to fight that asskicking and counter with legitimate attacks of your own.
You don't just wrestle hard, you wrestle skillfully hard.
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Discussion Topic: I'm for Tom Ryan
Brad Perkins added to this discussion on December 21, 2010
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Michael, Agree with you on some points. The team should be greatly improved in the next 2 seasons. If not, then I would agree changes need to be looked at. Again though, I have a lot of faith in Coach Ryan and don't see this happening. Great point about Rowland and Heskett leaving hurting the program. Coach Heskett seemed to be bring tons of positive energy and enthusiasm to the team and the whole program in general. Still disagree on your point with the ammount of interest now in the program. I will admit I didn't follow the team closely during Hellickson's early years, but towards the end it almost seemed like apathy set in. It almost seemed accepted that although Ohio is in the "hot bed" of wrestling, little was expected. That is not the case now as Coach Ryan has stated his goal is to bring a championship to Columbus. Again, from my experiences, there seems to be more interest and fan support (caring) than in previous years.
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Discussion Topic: I'm for Tom Ryan
Freddy Carr added to this discussion on December 21, 2010
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I said "I expected a down year" just based on the lineup coming into this season, with the point being that I am not surprised by the down year. Nothing surpising about the PSU pasting, except that I didn't think it would be THAT bad. But if you looked at the lineup at the beginning of the year and then the injuries/departures, this isn't a suprise.
Stieber out, Paddock (supposedly) wrestling injured, Palmer done, Jameson done, Heflin with funky skin, etc. This is a mess right now.
Now, I totally agree that Ryan and staff need to put MORE focus on the Ohio recruits. They need to learn from their mistakes, and adjust accordingly. I also agree that there should not be years where the program is this "down". A "down" year should be toward the lower end of the top 25, at the very worst.
The next two years will be very telling. Ryan has earned those two years IMO.
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Discussion Topic: I'm for Tom Ryan
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on December 21, 2010
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Brad...Ohio State finished 4th in '91, 5th in '92 and 5th in '93. Holman and Randleman won titles and were 2X and 3X All Americans, respectively, while DiSabato, Marinelli, Ramsey, Schyck were all at least 2X AAs (with DiSabito and Ramsey finishing as high as third). Dunyasha Yetts was also on that '93 team and would finish 3rd the next season. Long story short, those teams were very good. Ohio was excited about Ohio State wrestling. They were simply not able to sustain the high level of recruiting and development. Then they lost Randleman for his senior season, had a couple of high profile recruiting busts and lost some blue-chippers (Mollica, St. John, Roger Chandler, Hepp)and the program was in a tailspin.
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Quote from Freddy Carr's post:
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"The next two years will be very telling. Ryan has earned those two years IMO."
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I totally agree.
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Last edited by Michael Rodriguez on December 21, 2010; edited 2 times in total
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Discussion Topic: I'm for Tom Ryan
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on December 21, 2010
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Joe Paterno. Period.
The man knows how to coach. When was the last time they won a national title? The Mid-90's!?!?!?! But what do we see today in the year 2010??? Head Coach Joe Paterno!!!
I, for one, believe success is cyclical. It's just the way it goes. Noone lives forever and not even Dan Gable could keep his legacy alive. He had to move on. Check out Iowa now... Are they in the top 10? Maybe they are #8.
Anywho, I agree with Mike on the fact that depth is a/the problem. I also agree with Rex on development. If coaches (and I'm not saying this is the case) are relying on just great recruiting, then they are setting themsleves up for failure! We just had 4... that's FOUR 4x State Champs in the room!!!!!! You still have to develop the talent due to it being college wrestling.
I think the key is that passion. Everyone I've ever heard talk about Logan and Hunter, along with Magrum and Taylor. Those guys want to succeed in EVERY aspect of their lives! Those kind of recruits, along development in the room, make for great teams.
My biggest problem is red-shirting. DO IT!!!!!!!!!!! I realize it can be a strain on an athlete, but keep a lion caged up long enough, and when he comes out, he will do some SERIOUS damage!!!
My $0.02
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Discussion Topic: I'm for Tom Ryan
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on December 21, 2010
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"This year is reminiscient of some the Hellickson years."
MikeR,
re your quote above, fact is Russ had alot of them his least decade, thats why hes not here, and his last 2 years ohio st was last in Big Ten--- we havent hit that point yet, far from it.
until Ryan arrived, Ohio st had NEVER been NCAA runnerup, under him they've done it twice. Give credit where due.
re your comparison, in WRESTLING with limited schols theres alot more chance for a down year than in FOOTBALL because a coach depends so much on each guy on scholarship in Wrestling-- in Football with 85 schols theres always capable backups and guys ready to step in. Not so in wrestling.
Example this season Ohio st lost quite a few starting DBs, but right now the defensive backfield looks good because other talented guys were on scholarship too, and ready to step in. ----in Wrestling because of only 9.9 schols a coach depends on really ONE GUY per WT, if that guy is hurt or not wrestling well the coach is pretty much stuck with him. In football they go to guy # 2 or 3.
So i don't think the wrestling--football comparison is valid. --and fact is so far Ryans record is outstanding though it will suffer this season. s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: I'm for Tom Ryan
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on December 21, 2010
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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""This year is reminiscient of some the Hellickson years."
MikeR,
re your quote above,..."
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First off, I don't think that "quote" is from me.
Secondly, My comparison of football to wrestling was in the level of expectation...and I think that is a valid comparison. Ohio State fans expect a certain level of excellence from their football team and they simply don't have that expectation from their wrestling team. I would argue that until they do, wrestling will never be a cosistant winner at Ohio State.
To be honest, I think your argument makes sense, but the facts simply don't bare it out. Football programs take turns winning BCS National Titles every year with a 2X champ being very rare. In wrestling, the landscape is dominated by a few programs that consistantly win NCAA titles or are at least in the top ten. Finishing 7th two years in a row will get you fired. Cleary, these programs are doing something different than Ohio State is. This is a down year for Iowa, I believe InterMat has them at #4. That's after graduating one of the strongest recruiting classes in their history with the combination of Iowa and Virginia Tech wrestlers. Somehow, they're still right there. Don't they have the same 9.9?
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