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Discussion Topic: Hypothetical Situation
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on October 16, 2010
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Imagine Tom Ryan is sitting in his office today and the phone rings. It's Chris Phillips. He says: Coach, I'd really like to be a Buckeye. But I can only do it if I receive a full scholarship.
Now, pretend that the Bucks have one ride left and they've offered half to McCauley and half to McIntosh. And they're still waiting to find out if one or the other--or both are coming.
If you're Tom Ryan, do you do it? Do you decide that it's better to have Chris Phillips in the fold rather than wait and possibly lose out on Phillips plus one or possibly both of the other two?
Keep in mind that you already have Garcia, Demas and Heflin at the 165 and 174 wt classes. And Courts, Capone and Magrum are your trio at 184-197. McCauley, in particular, would really be an important pickup because he's likely your future at 157.
Do you grab Phillips while you can because of his tremendous skill? Or do you decide it's too expensive and wait to see whom, if anyone, commits out of the guys you're still waiting on?
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Discussion Topic: Hypothetical Situation
Don Bork added to this discussion on October 16, 2010
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My understanding is that no buckeye recruits have been getting fulls, though I don't know that to be fact. If Stieber, Pucillo, Palmer, Jags etc, have been here under less than fulls, how do you give one to anybody else. Ryan is trying to win a team championship by splitting the money in order to bring in greater numbers of quality wrestlers. Only by creating quality depth in order to account for injuries, redshirts and other issues can you accomplish this goal. If a half has been offered to Macintosh and McCauley that is what I'd offer Phillips. First two to say yes get the $. Let's understand that whatever an individual gets is going to be known by the others in the room eventually. I think that Ryans philosophy is that no one individual can be greater than the TEAM. If that is the case, I don't see how you can make an exception for one person. If , however, Ryan has given out some full rides, then my arguements hold no water.
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Discussion Topic: Hypothetical Situation
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on October 16, 2010
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Don: So you'd make a counter offer of a half.
Based on my scenario, Chris would turn you down.
I understand your point about how money is divvied.
I have no knowledge of the situation but my hunch would be that a lot of these guys get a partial scholarship that is supplemented by grants in aid. I could be completely wrong of course.
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Discussion Topic: Hypothetical Situation
Jamie Teel added to this discussion on October 16, 2010
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Not a big Hypothetical guy but for what its worth...McCauly stated that the schools on his list had all offered full rides. Im positive I read in an interview that Palmer was also a full.
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Discussion Topic: Hypothetical Situation
Luke Moore added to this discussion on October 16, 2010
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No, you don't do it! You say, "Chris, it would be in your best interest to attend Ohio University and win a MAC title with the Bobcats! You would be a great fit for a great school and an outstanding wrestling conference! Good luck and we will see you at nationals!"
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Discussion Topic: Hypothetical Situation
Don Bork added to this discussion on October 16, 2010
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Well then, if Ryan has, indeed, given some fulls and McCauley has been offered one, then the first of those three that wants my last full gets it.
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Discussion Topic: Hypothetical Situation
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on October 16, 2010
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You certainly do NOT renege on an offer, or offers, you have already extended. What would that say about the man, the program, and the university?
How could reneging even be contemplated?
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Discussion Topic: Hypothetical Situation
Don Bork added to this discussion on October 16, 2010
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Offers are made with the knowledge that others have been made the same offers, first to commit gets the scholly.
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Discussion Topic: Hypothetical Situation
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on October 17, 2010
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Lance Palmer (if that's who Jamie meant) was recruited by Russ Hellickson. As I recall, one of the issues Coach Ryan faced when he arrived was the difficulty in scraping together scholarship money. There were too many kids on full rides at the time.
What constitutes a "full ride?" Is it a 100% scholarship? Or is it a combo of athletic grant plus other aid? I have no knowledge of the situation but have to think that Coach Ryan has worked hard with Gene Smith to be creative in how the money is divvied up. Don't forget, Pres. Gee seems to have a very good relationship with the athletic dept so he may be working on his end to enable a certain amount of non-athletic aid to go to athletic prospects in so called "minor sports."
McCauley is being recruited by Iowa and I doubt they offer anyone 100%. Nor does Okie State which instead offers in-state tuition to out-of-state applicants.
The current college landscape consists of Iowa, Okie State, Penn State, Cornell and Ohio State as the top teams when it comes to stockpiling young talent--my opinion of course and subject to scrutiny. These five are really brawling when it comes to recruiting the cream of high school talent. How do you win these battles--esp. when it comes to out-of-state superstars like McCauley? I have to think that his total pkg will allow him to attend school for free even if it's not a "full ride." That strikes me as an important component in getting this type of kid.
It would be interesting to hear from anyone that can corroborate or refute any of my conjecture.
Or we could just skip my nonsense and get back to the hypothetical.
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Discussion Topic: Hypothetical Situation
Jamie Teel added to this discussion on October 17, 2010
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Hank, very well thought out post as usual, and I agree 100% this is how the top teams have to attempt to do it. Im simply regurgitating what Mccauly stated in his interview in the Minn. newspaper. He definatly said he had recieved full offers from all involved. How that is made up Im certainly not sure.
As for Phillips...Im amazed at the out of sight out of mind theory. This kid is an absolute talent....its was Phillips everyone was scurrying to see a few years ago....not Logan. Obviously times have changed, Logan is an absolute joy to watch and I would be absolutly shocked if hes not at least top 3 this year. Chris simply doesnt breath wrestling the way the other "four" do....but ive still watched him flat out "go" with Kilgore a number of times in the last year which brings to question....Is kent st. in the running?
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Discussion Topic: Hypothetical Situation
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on October 17, 2010
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Here's what theopenmat.com had to say about Phillips in their rankings of top 174 pound collegiate prospects. Note that Logan Storley was ranked #1.
2. Chris Phillips, Monroeville, OH , Status: Unsigned
* 3x State Champion
* 2x Fargo Champ
* Ironman Champ
* FILA Placer
College Choices: Michigan, Ohio State, Kent St.
Notes: Phillips has been considered a national-level stud since he stepped on the mat as a freshman, winning a state title, an Ironman title, and two Fargo Cadet titles before his sophomore year began! It’s difficult to not rank Phillips #1. To this date, he still has only 1 career loss (as a Soph. to now-Nittany Lion Ed Ruth in Ironman semi’s).
The reservation is Phillips’ lack of national schedule as an upperclassman. Other than the Ironman tournament, in which he placed third as a sophomore and injury defaulted out of as a junior, Phillips really hasn’t tested himself.
He’s very, technically, proficient. The best in the class from the front head position and scoring off half shots and mistakes. But he appears to be less aggressive than he used to be, when he was relentless and tough to stop as he showed impeccable ability to move from shot-to-shot.
There is a school of thought that he may not be as ‘into it’ as he used to be. I’m not of that opinion. He’s still a tremendous talent. It’s possible he’s the best overall recruit in the country, and a protégé of Erik Burnett. It’s just too bad we haven’t gotten to see more of him lately.
TOM’s Prediction: Michigan
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Discussion Topic: Hypothetical Situation
Ben Golden added to this discussion on October 17, 2010
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Hank... I don't do hypotheticals. All three are coming to Ohio State!
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Discussion Topic: Hypothetical Situation
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on October 17, 2010
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Quote from Don Bork's post:
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"Offers are made with the knowledge that others have been made the same offers, first to commit gets the scholly."
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Perhaps in wrestling then, but not in many if any other sports that we have been involved with.
And even if so, still doesn't say much about the integrity of the coach, program, or school.
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Discussion Topic: Hypothetical Situation
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on October 17, 2010
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"
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Quote from Don Bork's post:
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"Offers are made with the knowledge that others have been made the same offers, first to commit gets the scholly."
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Perhaps in wrestling then, but not in many if any other sports that we have been involved with.
And even if so, still doesn't say much about the integrity of the coach, program, or school."
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Wrestling is the ONLY sport that it is IMPOSSIBLE for the entire starting team to have a full ride (athletic scholarships speaking). Big difference.
If the offer is made and the situation (first to accept gets it), nothing wrong with that.
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Discussion Topic: Hypothetical Situation
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on October 17, 2010
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Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
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"
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"
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Quote from Don Bork's post:
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"Offers are made with the knowledge that others have been made the same offers, first to commit gets the scholly."
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Perhaps in wrestling then, but not in many if any other sports that we have been involved with.
And even if so, still doesn't say much about the integrity of the coach, program, or school."
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Wrestling is the ONLY sport that it is IMPOSSIBLE for the entire starting team to have a full ride (athletic scholarships speaking). Big difference.
If the offer is made and the situation (first to accept gets it), nothing wrong with that."
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Brady, close but not quite.
Division I
Men Baseball 11.7
Basketball 13
Cross Country/Track and Field 12.6
Fencing 4.5
Football (Division I-A) 85
Football (Division I-AA) 63
Golf 4.5
Gymnastics 6.3
Ice Hockey 18
Lacrosse 12.6
Rifle 3.6
Skiing 6.3
Soccer 9.9
Swimming and Diving 9.9
Tennis 4.5
Volleyball 4.5
Water Polo 4.5
Wrestling 9.9
Not enough for golf, soccer, water polo, or volleyball either. But I see what you are saying. I suppose if the athletes understand the situation up-front then everything is on the up and up.
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