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Discussion Topic: Dean Heil beats Freddie Rodriguez
Ben Golden added to this discussion on May 23, 2010
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Discussion Topic: Dean Heil beats Freddie Rodriguez
Josh Lowe added to this discussion on May 23, 2010
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Rodriguez:
*Super32 (which is considered a pre-season, not off-season, event) runner-up at 103 to Joey Dance (Dance went 112 for the duration of the season)
*State champ @ 112 - quite frankly he went 112 because he could ... why bother cutting weight if you're gonna win anyway, and it squeezed a teammate in the lineup
*FloNationals champ @ 103 - beat Phillips (IN) in the final ... Phillips is a 2x undefeated state champ
*FILA Cadet Nationals double champ (GR/FS) @ 110
This is a significant win for Heil in the context that it shows where his ability level is.
However, from a ranking process standpoint, it will get lost in the midst of everything else that goes on. What will get scrutinized from the off-season is Fargo, Jr/Cadet Duals, and Disney Duals -- along with the FILA Cadet/Junior Nationals. These are the big name events where the most competition shows up - and you tend to see kids in weight classes that are competitive for them.
I look at the FS/GR regionals (moreso FS than GR obviously) for the class ranking update in June, but those don't get overly scrutinized (especially since the Western Regional no longer carries the cache that it did when it as in Vegas) for weight class in the fall. These garden variety dual meet events get lost in the shuffle for varying reasons -- finding results, weight class disparities, etc.
What I expect to see from Freddie come the Duals and Fargo - He is going to be a Junior this year (exhausted Cadet status) and in title contention at either 105 or 112. Freddie is a kid that tests himself on a consistent basis with competition, which is something that gets rewarded in the ranking process (and he is consistenly very productive - which the above credential list shows).
Looking at the box scores, you'll see that Freddie competed in some other matches down at 108; while Heil competed at 117 or 124 for the duration.
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Discussion Topic: Dean Heil beats Freddie Rodriguez
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on May 24, 2010
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Quote from Josh Lowe's post:
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"Rodriguez:
*Super32 (which is considered a pre-season, not off-season, event) runner-up at 103 to Joey Dance (Dance went 112 for the duration of the season)
*State champ @ 112 - quite frankly he went 112 because he could ... why bother cutting weight if you're gonna win anyway, and it squeezed a teammate in the lineup
*FloNationals champ @ 103 - beat Phillips (IN) in the final ... Phillips is a 2x undefeated state champ
*FILA Cadet Nationals double champ (GR/FS) @ 110
This is a significant win for Heil in the context that it shows where his ability level is.
However, from a ranking process standpoint, it will get lost in the midst of everything else that goes on. What will get scrutinized from the off-season is Fargo, Jr/Cadet Duals, and Disney Duals -- along with the FILA Cadet/Junior Nationals. These are the big name events where the most competition shows up - and you tend to see kids in weight classes that are competitive for them.
I look at the FS/GR regionals (moreso FS than GR obviously) for the class ranking update in June, but those don't get overly scrutinized (especially since the Western Regional no longer carries the cache that it did when it as in Vegas) for weight class in the fall. These garden variety dual meet events get lost in the shuffle for varying reasons -- finding results, weight class disparities, etc.
What I expect to see from Freddie come the Duals and Fargo - He is going to be a Junior this year (exhausted Cadet status) and in title contention at either 105 or 112. Freddie is a kid that tests himself on a consistent basis with competition, which is something that gets rewarded in the ranking process (and he is consistenly very productive - which the above credential list shows).
Looking at the box scores, you'll see that Freddie competed in some other matches down at 108; while Heil competed at 117 or 124 for the duration."
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My son has wrestled Rodriguez and he is very much the real deal.
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Discussion Topic: Dean Heil beats Freddie Rodriguez
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on May 24, 2010
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If there is one thing I can say about the kids from Eds... They improve at a rate that I rarely see. No matter the kid, if you see one early in the year... by the time the end of the year arrives, they are twice the wrestler.
Just saying.
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Discussion Topic: Dean Heil beats Freddie Rodriguez
Mark Adelman added to this discussion on May 25, 2010
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Josh, from what I'm reading, even though you know Heil just won this match because it wasn't in one of the big tourneys, it will be counted as less.
Just correct me if I'm misreading your post.
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Discussion Topic: Dean Heil beats Freddie Rodriguez
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on May 25, 2010
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"If there is one thing I can say about the kids from Eds... They improve at a rate that I rarely see. No matter the kid, if you see one early in the year... by the time the end of the year arrives, they are twice the wrestler."
----------------------------------------------
yes very true, a great wrestling room, a stable savvy coaching staff, and a great tradition help alot -- but one other big reason is, Mark, they do freestyle.
No one has more wrestlers on the spring & summer freestyle circuit than st Eds. They learn a new style, they see what the other ambitious wrestlers are doing, they see what they need to do to get to the next level.
And its always been this way. By the beginning of next season i expect st Eds to be a formidable force nationally, still young but formidable. s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: Dean Heil beats Freddie Rodriguez
Josh Lowe added to this discussion on May 25, 2010
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Quote from Mark Adelman's post:
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"Josh, from what I'm reading, even though you know Heil just won this match because it wasn't in one of the big tourneys, it will be counted as less.
Just correct me if I'm misreading your post."
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Basically yes. Happens all the time in ranking (especially at the national level). Certain events receive priority (especially in the off-season) -- wrestlers are sometimes ahead of/behind others that they lost to/beat. Also you have to consider the total resume.
As Mark and Bob stated, St Edward has their wrestlers improve significantly from the time they start to the time they finish. This is moreso seen in the kids that don't enter high school than the ones that do (because the ones that are stars, it's harder to measure improvement); Heil being one of the stars though.
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Discussion Topic: Dean Heil beats Freddie Rodriguez
Mark Adelman added to this discussion on May 26, 2010
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Thanks for the response, Josh and thanks for all the hard work put into your rankings!
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Discussion Topic: Dean Heil beats Freddie Rodriguez
Pat Costilow added to this discussion on May 26, 2010
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Big win and congrats to Heil. I hope this isn't lost in the ranking process due to it not being at the right event. Mark Moos' presence at Ed's is helping these lightweights tremendously. Bright also improved a ton over the course of last year, as did Alex Moore, even though he ended up out of the starting lineup.
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