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Discussion Topic: Is MMA good for wrestling?
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on June 25, 2010
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Hank: GOhio has it on their site. ...that's if it was a site you needed as opposed to time.
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Discussion Topic: Is MMA good for wrestling?
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on June 26, 2010
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Mark: You understand perfectly. Between work and the kids sports, I'm busy the first fifteen hours every day.
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Discussion Topic: Is MMA good for wrestling?
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on June 27, 2010
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I watched Askren's fight last night. He looked excellent although I'd argue that Hornbuckle's style played into his hands. Askren was able to turn it into a wrestling match and he is the best wrestling MMA fighter I've ever seen. Askren will be great if he can handle guys with tremendous striking ability because that's where he appears most vulnerable. But on the ground, there's no way to beat him. He'll scramble out of any position and come out on top. And he doesn't need a clean leg attack to finish. He'll finish any shot from any position. Even other former star wrestlers have nothing that approaches Askren's mat skills in my opinion. And his conditioning is superb. I'll look forward to his next match.
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Discussion Topic: Is MMA good for wrestling?
Rex Holman added to this discussion on August 11, 2010
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Check out Zeb's gohiocasts of Extreme Couture workout facility and interviews with Randy and Frank Trigg, priceless. Awesome interviews.
Randy fights James Toney this weekend and Randy's skill level and understanding of MMA parallels or surpasses anyone's. This is a lopsided matchup. Toney may resort to some dirty tactics when he realizes the water he is in.
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Discussion Topic: Is MMA good for wrestling?
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on August 12, 2010
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My guess is that Toney needs money. Why else do this?
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Discussion Topic: Is MMA good for wrestling?
Rick Wasmer added to this discussion on August 12, 2010
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I know if Randy gets him on the ground , he wins the round . But James Toney is one tough dude , and Randy cannot afford to take a punch from this guy .
I'm sure Randy has never been hit by anyone who hits like James Toney .
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Discussion Topic: Is MMA good for wrestling?
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on August 12, 2010
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"My guess is that Toney needs money. Why else do this?"
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Hard to say. Herschel Walker has also fought, and it is only my guess but I would not think he is doing it for that reason.
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Discussion Topic: Is MMA good for wrestling?
Rex Holman added to this discussion on August 13, 2010
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I screwed the pooch on the date, August 28th.
As for James Toney hitting hard, sure.
Striking is a function of physics, specifically, technique which abides by mass x acceleration (force)
Accuracy (intended point of impact) of the strike plays a huge role as there are points of impact which are debilitating versus absorbable
I give props for technique, force and accuracy to all boxers.
That being said, same principles of planting feet, generating power through hips, extension of arm and snapping of wrist so that force is generated through closed fist onto opponent needs to be in place to make optimal.
In a closed system with specific rules, that is clearly an advantage to the boxer.
Striking in MMA must account for barefootededness, threat of takedown and totally different tactics. Hence, a more complete system encompassing all forms of attack.
If you watch with a keen eye, the stances of MMA athletes are unique to the individual and their particular strength and strategy.
While James Toney could eventually be a good 285 MMA fighter, I think he will be "found out" for his limitations and specific applicability of skills
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Discussion Topic: Is MMA good for wrestling?
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on August 13, 2010
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Rex: I watched Rashad Evans fight and he has a beautiful stance. He stands mostly upright but looks well balanced and light on his feet. As I watched him, my feeling was that he looked more like a boxer than an ex-wrestler. Given his background, he's a great blend.
Saw Jon Jones dismantle a respectable opponent in under two minutes. He is a beast!
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Discussion Topic: Is MMA good for wrestling?
Rex Holman added to this discussion on August 14, 2010
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Hank-
Jones could win the championship right now.
I like Rashad's footwork and movement, too.
Everyone is going to come out in an upright stance, but the difference is in the combinations of attacks that follow. Most wrestlers are going to work some combination of attacks that utilize strikes and to a lesser degree kicks. Primarily, you are attempting to find your range, hurt/debilitate/finish your opponent, set up a takedown.
Range could be defined as that space which separates you and your opponent, but allows you to effectively attack and counterattack. It is a function of awareness and function.
Most everything that occurs depends upon level of skill development and strategy. Wrestlers have to account for their striking stance being in accord with their penetration step. Trigg sums it up very nicely in saying that everything comes down to transition.
Pivotal points in each fight (and each wrestling match for that matter) come with an attack. Decisionmaking following a critical attack on both athletes behalf determine outcome.
Fatigue and behavior play a large role in decisionmaking in sport. Snap decisions are a matter of interpretation and reaction based upon learned behavior.
i.e. Sonnen got submitted later in the match due to a slow reaction based in part to fatigue and his interpretation of a danger position being too slow. It happened in his fight against Filho; those gray areas are dangerous because they may be confusing and ambiguous; Also, coming to mind is Penn v Sherk, Sherk got rocked and changed levels for a td (learned behavior) and proceeded to get rocked by a knee.
Two wrestler that were/are excellent at creating ambiguous and confusing positions are Jaggers and Mitch Clark. They were able to create positions in which they were highly skilled and invited the other guy into their spider web.
JMHO
R
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Discussion Topic: Is MMA good for wrestling?
Patrick Campbell added to this discussion on August 15, 2010
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Quote from Rex Holman's post:
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"
Two wrestler that were/are excellent at creating ambiguous and confusing positions are Jaggers and Mitch Clark. They were able to create positions in which they were highly skilled and invited the other guy into their spider web.
JMHO
R"
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Best part about their styles was/is that you could be aware and (try to)prepare and still get caught in the web. That being said, I cannot imagine trying to prepare for Mitch. I swear he was half Gumby or Jello (or something). I miss watching him compete. I was never big enough to have been subjected to his abuse and frustration :) In any event, I guess that's what defines top level guys, they can subject their will on you...even when you know it's coming.
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Discussion Topic: Is MMA good for wrestling?
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on August 15, 2010
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There's video somewhere (i think Gohio) of Mitch showing a favorite single leg counter. It's one of the oddest moves I've ever seen and seems to violate certain laws of physics. But it worked for him.
If you shot in on Jaggers right leg with your head outside, the best you could hope for was to give up only two. No one in the history of this sport has ever been better from that position. What's amazing is how good Jaggers was at baiting opponents into taking that shot.
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Discussion Topic: Is MMA good for wrestling?
Leo Zimmer added to this discussion on August 17, 2010
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Quote from Rex Holman's post:
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"
That being said, same principles of planting feet, generating power through hips, extension of arm and snapping of wrist so that force is generated through closed fist onto opponent needs to be in place to make optimal.
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Rex... I like your description of good striking technique. This is (IMO) what makes a boxer particularly vulnerable to a wrestler in the cage. When well executed, a straight right or cross will leave nearly all of the weight on your front foot. Any fighter with even average wrestling skills should be able to take advantage of this and score a takedown.
That is unless that straight right actually connects :-)
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Discussion Topic: Is MMA good for wrestling?
Rick Wasmer added to this discussion on August 18, 2010
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Here's the WEC 50 card being fought on versus tonite . Main carrd starts at 9 pm I think . Prelims start at 6 , and I don't think are televised .
Cruz vs . Benavidez is a championship fight .
I wonder when we'll see Lance Palmer on one of these prelim cards ?
I got this off mma junkie .com , great site for mma stuff , lots of articles everyday .
Also , any of you guys have HDNET channel on tv? They have a great MMA show every Friday , Inside MMA , with Bas Ruten .
And now they've started a new show before that show on Fridays called Fighting Words . They had a great 30 minute interview with Chael Sonnen , from the day after the fight .
This week the interview is with Jon Jones , should be interesting .
MAIIN CARD
•Champ Dominick Cruz (134) vs. Joseph Benavidez (134)
•Anthony Pettis (155) vs. Shane Roller (156)
•Chad Mendes (145) vs. Cub Swanson (146)
•Scott Jorgensen (135) vs. Brad Pickett (136)
•Zach Micklewright (156) vs. Bart Palaszewski (156)
PRELIMINARY CARD
•Maciej Jewtuszko (155) vs. Anthony Njokuani (154)
•Mackens Semerzier (146) vs. Javier Vazquez (145)
•Dave Jansen (156) vs. Ricardo Lamas (155)
•Bryan Caraway (145) vs. Fredson Paixao (145)
•Danny Castillo (156) vs. Dustin Poirier (156)
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Last edited by Rick Wasmer on August 18, 2010; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: Is MMA good for wrestling?
Rex Holman added to this discussion on August 18, 2010
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Leo-
You make a great point about weight distribution with regard to punching. If any athlete is firmly planted on their forward leg and a wrestler so much as gets a hand on the leg, a takedown usually follows. Wrestlers have the best takedowns and takedown defenses. I takes years to develop that skillset as a wrestler. Then it takes time to adapt it to MMA because of the other variables which are incorporated.
Once on top, an effective pound attack from a closed guard can inflict a lot of damage.
A lot of the knockouts come from looping punches or short hooks in which the striker is more evenly distributed in weight.
Boxers can adapt just like anyone else, the questions becomes are they motivated to do so and are they getting good coaching.
Call me crazy, but Toney seems largely ego driven. While he may have the resources to adapt, I think chances are pretty high that he has not made the necessary adjustments to succeed.
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