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Discussion Topic: I thought we were recruting Camp are we going to lose another one to Penn State?
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on April 7, 2010
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buckeyes lean times for next year, need to reassess their recruiting strategies, Sulzer & Thomusseit both too good not to recruit--- AFTER ALL THIS IS OHIO State --- except for Paddock all the time the Ryan staff spent on out of state gems was wasted, Garcia hopefully will work out though but thats unknown.
and while at it load up on spam, beef jerky, canned goods & bottled water for the long cold winter ahead. s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: I thought we were recruting Camp are we going to lose another one to Penn State?
Ben Golden added to this discussion on April 7, 2010
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You would think they would want to make it so every Ohio youth wrestler dreams of wrestling for Ohio State and they stay in contact with all of the top Ohio talent. Even if they don't have a ton of money to give that person, be open with them and let them know they are welcome on the team if they really want to be there. That way, even if the wrestler goes elsewhere he still thinks holds them in high regards and understands the situation.
What comes to mind is Sponseller taking 10% when he first came here. There are probably other guys like that out there, and I think you've got to be heavy on communication so you don't miss out on those guys.
Maybe they already do this, I don't know.
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Discussion Topic: I thought we were recruting Camp are we going to lose another one to Penn State?
Rex Holman added to this discussion on April 7, 2010
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It has by my experience that recruiting is a function of how a coach perceives the wrestler performing at the next level and then investing a proportional amount of time and energy into that prospect. The greater the perception equates to a greater amount of time and energy.
A bluechip gets a lot of attention and coaches go to great lengths to develop relationships with the prospect. Numerous coaches have the same opinion of some athletes and thus, begets a recruiting war.
On the matter of recruiting everyone. It is not really practical, however, the relationship with all top level recruits should be initiated to see what the disposition the athlete has towards the university and program and move forward if justifiable.
Recruiting is about salesmanship. The product you are selling is yourself, the program, the university, and their future experience. Being emotional and making attachments to an 18 y/o kid is a good way to get burned. You have to chalk it up to what it is and that is competition. Sometimes you have the necessary means to win and sometimes you don't. Post-decision, it is important to assess and understand what happened and for what reason.
I know that some wrestlers and families develop strong opinions good and bad about a university based upon recruiting practices.
Recruiting is just one part of the coaching game, albeit an extremely important one.
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Discussion Topic: I thought we were recruting Camp are we going to lose another one to Penn State?
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on April 7, 2010
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oh-- and i told Tom Ryan, don't schedule Kent st next season, ha, ha.
some can recruit, some cant, some take to it, some have the touch, others don't, but its NOT complex. However it is VITAL. -----its like geting a date, some guys have the knack but most guys are clumsy & uncomfortable and don't get dates with nice looking babes, thats how life is. Recruiting is much the same.
Right now buckeyes under new staff are recruiting ok but not real good, nothing to brag about.
an ANOTHER THING, this Garcia enrollment deferment AINT good--- he now has to re-sign, its gone from one problem to the next to the next, i don't like the trend. s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: I thought we were recruting Camp are we going to lose another one to Penn State?
Roe Fox added to this discussion on April 7, 2010
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TOSU landed the undisputed Number 1 recruit in the country (remember when we didn't get C.P. or D. Schlatter?). They landed Demas who most in the know have said has tremendous upside. Garcia has decided to rehab at home rather than travel across the country and burn a year at TOSU. He said he will be here in 2011. These are all kids who can change their mind even after they enroll (see Metcalf, Platt, etc.) but if Garcia is what has been written about him I would like to think he will keep his word.
I like this class, though small. If Ryan and company didn't land Stieber and Demas with a few others then maybe there is a problem but the idea is to build steadily, keep the recruits on campus (a real problem before Ryan), and develop them.
He did it at Hofstra with less to offer. He'll do it here. He has a great coaching staff for lightweights, middles and heavies. All good people, too.
Can't ignore the potential impact of the Steibers on Phillips and Tessari.
I think Ryan is doing fine. I'm willing to give him a few more years before I start saying the sky is falling. Two team seconds and an underperformng eighth due in some part to injuries to the biggest potential scorers.
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Discussion Topic: I thought we were recruting Camp are we going to lose another one to Penn State?
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on April 7, 2010
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Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
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" --as ive said often before, any Thomusseit regrets yet ?"
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As soon as his brother signed at Pitt, Max was going there also. He and Zac came to work out at my school last summer and in talking afterwards to Max, he told me he wants to be with his brother. I don't think any school had a chance at pulling him away. They are pretty close.
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Discussion Topic: I thought we were recruting Camp are we going to lose another one to Penn State?
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on April 8, 2010
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"I think Ryan is doing fine. I'm willing to give him a few more years before I start saying the sky is falling."
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well, i knew Tom Ryan long before he became Ohio st head coach, from his time at Hofstra when he was trying to recruit Ohio wrestlers. In fact Ryan has said in the past i was the first guy to recommend Mike Pucillo to him at Hofstra.
yes Ryan & staff sure are doing fine, we are lucky to have them and no one said- using your words- "the sky is falling". But it doesnt hurt to face reality either. No one gets a "free pass", if are in public eye u get evaluated.
Tom's great record so far was mostly done with someone elses recruits, but Tom & staffs great coaching. Now we will see what he and his staff can do with their recruits. Next year will be lean. I expect the future to be bright, but not too bright for the next couple years.
fact is, we don't & wont have Garcia yet on campus, we havent signed the juniors u mentioned yet, when it happens then we can count on them. Right now its all talk-- like in the past weve heard about Jordan Oliver & Meade & Peppelman & Campo and Kindig, etc.
And as for the others except Logan Stieber, as former Texas football coach Darrell Royal said, "Potential is what u aint done yet." s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: I thought we were recruting Camp are we going to lose another one to Penn State?
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on April 8, 2010
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Is Logan a career 125? For some reason I see him bulking up at some point and maybe ending up at 33 or even 41.
There are valid point everywhere in this discussion. It is valid to say that Coach Ryan has done an amazing job and is targeting the national number 1 kids to come to Columbus, even if it means losing many of them to Ok State, Penn State, etc.
It is also valid to wonder if it would be a better idea to focus majority of efforts on in-state talent. It is somewhat ironic that many of the top programs come to Ohio to recruit, and Ohio State is looking at WA, PA, NJ, etc etc etc. It's a bit of a catch-22; you have to recruit the best kids in the country but in doing so you may miss out on the best kids in the state.
Four Ohio kids wrestled in the Dapper Dan, only one is heading to OSU. Would this class, even without Garcia, look much better with a combination of Sulzer, Mitch, and Clark? The answer is yes.
This is a healthy conversation for educated fans, in my very humble opinion. And I do think TR is a top 5 coach, without a doubt.
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Discussion Topic: I thought we were recruting Camp are we going to lose another one to Penn State?
Roe Fox added to this discussion on April 8, 2010
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"no one said- using your words- 'the sky is falling'"
Perhaps I misunderstood your comment re beef jerky and a long cold winter. Seemed a little pejorative to me.
"we havent signed the juniors u mentioned yet."
Who did I mention that was a junior? I realize most don't have your keen insight but aren't Stieber and Demas signed seniors who are coming in this fall? I think they are a healthy start.
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Discussion Topic: I thought we were recruting Camp are we going to lose another one to Penn State?
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on April 8, 2010
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"Perhaps I misunderstood your comment re beef jerky and a long cold winter. Seemed a little pejorative to me." --------pejorative u say RF, i.e. derogatory ? not at all, it is what it is, a lean outlook next year or two as of today. Im not into hype, i hate hype. And im a writer first & foremost, i'm not a lawyer, im just trying to paint a picture.
"Who did I mention that was a junior?" --------RF, yes u did, u mentioned Phillips & Tessari.
"I realize most don't have your keen insight but aren't Stieber and Demas signed seniors who are coming in this fall?" ----------- RF, my point was Logan Stieber is proven wrestling vs Men, hes money in the bank we all agree, he's pretty much a known commodity.
Demas must prove it yet, we all see talent, however his achievements strictly are within the confines of Ohio's borders so far. (whereas guys like Clark & Sulzer & Mitch have won titles in Fargo or at NHSCA nationals vs some of the nations best. Until a wrestler proves it outside Ohio, he aint that good yet. Again i refer to Darrel Royal.) s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: I thought we were recruting Camp are we going to lose another one to Penn State?
Roe Fox added to this discussion on April 8, 2010
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"Who did I mention that was a junior?" --------RF, yes u did, u mentioned Phillips & Tessari."
As recruits signed? I don't think so. However, I get your position. Perhaps you are too ready to critique without reading. Your desire to have the last word is without parallel regardless of the point being made.
I still think we have a good class for next year and a great lineup for the next few years. By my count 3 four timers, 3 three timers and 2 or 3 two timers. I'm not sure there will be anyone in the lineup without at least one state title unless there is a rash of redshirts. Also, I am hearing of no one who is academically a problem right now. Or a behavioral problem. Can we say that about Iowa or PSU the last few years? No.
As a fan would I like more? Of course. But tell me who is going to outrecruit Brands, Sanderson and Smith until a title or two is won? I don't think anyone. Not even JRob. Maybe Kohl but the dynamic he has at Cornell is different. He is always in the running for the top notch recruit who happens to also be a top notch student.
I will say this: I do not understand how some of the StPG guys don't find TOSU attractive. Great facility, really close to home. It would be nice to start that pipeline and keep some of the Ed's guys here.
I like Ryan and his life story, not just as a coach but as a person. Same with Heskett. Any parent with a head on their shoulders would find much to like about TOSU from a leadership standpoint. And that includes Rosselli, Rowlands and Jaggers.
Like Tressel I think time is on their side. What is the saying? Time and truth at some point will meet. We'll see. I'm all in.
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Discussion Topic: I thought we were recruting Camp are we going to lose another one to Penn State?
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on April 8, 2010
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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"But tell me who is going to outrecruit Brands, Sanderson and Smith until a title or two is won? I don't think anyone. "
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If you don't outrecruit them, how are you going to win a title or two?
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Discussion Topic: I thought we were recruting Camp are we going to lose another one to Penn State?
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on April 9, 2010
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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"But tell me who is going to outrecruit Brands, Sanderson and Smith until a title or two is won? I don't think anyone. "
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If you don't outrecruit them, how are you going to win a title or two?"
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Perhaps by outcoaching them. If it was only about recruiting you wouldn't need the coaching staff for anything else.
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Discussion Topic: I thought we were recruting Camp are we going to lose another one to Penn State?
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on April 9, 2010
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"Perhaps by outcoaching them. If it was only about recruiting you wouldn't need the coaching staff for anything else."
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First off, staff is certainly focused on recruiting. The right staff can help bring in the right recruits...a legend from a particular state or school, an Olympic or World champion, or a young Olympic or World hopeful. Having those guys on the staff are part of the package that programs are selling to top level recruits. Also, with some staff, their primary responsibility can be recruiting. They may have good stuff and be able to develop talent, but their real skill is finding and bringing in talent for others to coach. Talent that not only can excell on the wrestling mat, but can hold their own in the classroom and handle the freedom and social aspects of college life. I agree that the staff develops the talent in the room, but no staff in America is so much better than any other in the top ten that they're going to pass up all the teams in front of them and win the title with lesser recruits. If you win the recruiting battle, you're likley to win the war.
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Discussion Topic: I thought we were recruting Camp are we going to lose another one to Penn State?
Roe Fox added to this discussion on April 9, 2010
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"Perhaps by outcoaching them. If it was only about recruiting you wouldn't need the coaching staff for anything else."
Absolutely. If it was simply about recruiting Butler and WVA don't sniff the final four this year.
If you think TOSU is going to get more highly ranked recruits in the next few years then PSU (and perhaps even Okla. St. and Iowa) then you are dreaming. But the matches still get wrestled and thats where the inroads can be made. Once its built they will come.
Of course, that is just my humble opinion.
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