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Discussion Topic: US Open In Cleveland April 22-25
Jack Muni added to this discussion on April 27, 2010
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The small turnout It didn't surprise me. We hosted the National Duals a few years ago, and I went and the crowd was about the same, for whatever reason.
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Discussion Topic: US Open In Cleveland April 22-25
John Drumm added to this discussion on April 27, 2010
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I see lots of heavy hitters posting above, but I had to chime in.
I agree with Tim that we have to ask ourselves about the target market.
For an "average fan" of wrestling in general, Freestyle and Greco are a big mystery. For many youth and hs wrestlers, FS & Greco are still a mystery, although in the last 20 years or so FS & Greco have gained popularity. Fargo 20 years ago might as well have been called Siberia.
I am not saying we need infomercials about the sport on tv, just more exposure to wrestlers coming from the youth and highschool coaches about FS & Greco. Post info on wrestling websites for coaches to print out and handout to their wrestlers explaining FS & Greco. A simple, easy to read, one page information sheet. Then, the wrestlers get excited, tell their parents (who pay for everything) and their parents know what's going on. Then, bingo! you have a wrestler, mom, dad, grandpa, grandma in the stands.
Nobody wants to sit in the stands and not know what's going on.
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Discussion Topic: US Open In Cleveland April 22-25
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on April 27, 2010
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"I would like to keep this tourney in Cleveland as long as we can, Let me know what you think." ---- TIM, all your ideas have merit i think. But we cant escape fact THE big problem was lack of attendance and none of your ideas effected attendance this year. If attendance had been good, we'd be happy today, and we could address the future with confidence.
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John Drumm,
re rules, i don't see enough FR & GR to keep abreast of the nuances & rules, i have to re-learn it myself every time i go to a event like this. But that didnt effect attendance. Coaches around Ohio ---where we had a good ph # or email-- were informed well in advance, it was posted on forums, and the PD which often drops the ball actually gave very good coverage, so no excuses.
There were quite a few Olympic gold medalists, former NCAA champs & college coaches walking around the Wolstein center, a Whose Who-- it would have been great exposure for youth wrestlers to see this event.
The uninitiated could have learned the rules & nuances like i did, on the run, a quick tutorial i got by asking someone who knows. It might have encouraged some of them to wrestle in FR & GR events in the off season, in fact. s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: US Open In Cleveland April 22-25
Tony Bradberry added to this discussion on April 28, 2010
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I think lack of attendance is due to lack of interest in freestyle and Greco here in Ohio. Bottom line is look at the qualifier numbers compared to what they used to be and you will see it is a lost art. I used to love it and excel at it, but now you go to a qualifier and there are 3 kids in a weight class. I think we need to revive the sport in the state before we ask why no one is coming to watch the sport.
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Discussion Topic: US Open In Cleveland April 22-25
Antony Sharples added to this discussion on April 28, 2010
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I was disgusted and disappointed by the turn out and lack of support that the wrestling community in Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York and New Jersey. These are the supposed "hot beds" of wrestling, and more fans should have come in from these areas.
I don't know how freestyle is promoted in the other states, but I feel that USAW-Ohio dropped the ball with this one. I don't think that they do a good job of pushing and promoting freestyle wrestling during the high school season. Many high school coaches here do not encourage freestyle wrestling, instead push Disney Duals (more on that). I think that something of this magnitude should have been promoted with more than just some fliers at local tournaments. The great wrestling, the legends that were walking around like Bobby Douglas, John Smith, Brands, and many other great wrestlers and coaches that were easily accessible should have been embraced by more young wrestlers and coaches.
The next problem I see that contributes to attendance is the total lack of freestyle support and knowledge from the common fan, and even some knowledgable folkstyle followers. This is tied in with my feeling about the promotion of the sport, but also with the gaining popularity of Disney Duals. Disney is killing freestyle wrestling. The rationale of getting 10+matches in Florida, with time for a vacation, is pulling most kids away from Fargo and most other USAW events. The lack of "superstars" and MMA is taking away fans and not generating any new ones. I cannot believe that kids in high school have no idea who John Smith is, or Dave Schultz. We as coaches need to educate younger wrestlers on the history of Freestyle wrestling.
I believe if we can promote better from within high schools, educate better, and encourage more Freestyle wrestling, we can put more fans in the seats, and hopefully produce more depth with in the Freestyle circle. It's time for USAW-Ohio to step up and start promoting the sport better.
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Discussion Topic: US Open In Cleveland April 22-25
Antony Sharples added to this discussion on April 28, 2010
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Quote from Tim Courtad's post:
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"
2. Bring a main attraction in for the tourney.
ex. exhibition mma fight, public speaker Lee Kemp ect, East West main event match, Old timers creative match ups.
3. Promotions, buy one get one free tickets.
4. Make the finals into a main event. I don't even like basketball, but when you go to a CAVS game it is an experience like know other with the music and special effects.
5. Wrestle all of the prelims and 3-8 placing matches before the night main event. Have three mats with freestyle, greco, and women all getting their own mats for the finals. This way you could let all matches end and then have a grand announcement for each match for the finals.
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Tim I really like your ideas. A clinic or a special dual event would have been great. I couldn't believe how they wrestled the finals. Put 3 mats out and let each style have their own.
As far as #4 goes, we did have the Cavs Jam or Cheer/Dance or whatever squad. That wasn't exciting enough for you? hahahaa
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Discussion Topic: US Open In Cleveland April 22-25
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on April 28, 2010
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Fact is the NWCA college duals at Ohio St U in 2003 & 2004, and at Cleveland St in 2005 & 2006 were poorly supported too---- No excuses, Ohio is great for youth & high school support, not so good for the rest.
why wouldnt a coach want to bring some kids to expose them to this FILA crown jewel? why wouldnt fans want to see the sports stars & legends up close & personal?
and its in Ohio, fact is we don't have much in this state anymore, we've gone from near highest per capita income about 30 or 40 years ago to near lowest among the states--- don't we want to keep important events here ??? No excuses. s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: US Open In Cleveland April 22-25
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on April 28, 2010
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Bob: I'm not sure who it falls on, but to say that the wrestlers this weekend are stars is a bit misleading. I'm guessing that only a handful of kids at my next open mat can tell me 2 champs from this weekend. Moreover, I would venture to say that only a few more could name what event occured.
Also, it is my ASSumption - I could be wrong though - that of the 30+ that are at our open mat on any given night, not one could name the weights for freestyle.
The truth of the matter is, our sport is NOT like any other sport. Maybe women's fencing??? Maybe!? But we try our best to publicize and market these things but to no or little avail.
I'm not saying quit - by NO means - but what I am saying is that instead of trying to imitate what works for other sports, we need to establish what works for our sport. I'm not at all what that is, but you can bet that there is someone out there that is does know... and when they finally do it, we'll all recognize it!
Just sayin'.
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Discussion Topic: US Open In Cleveland April 22-25
Mike Leedy added to this discussion on April 28, 2010
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Quote from Tony Bradberry's post:
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"I think lack of attendance is due to lack of interest in freestyle and Greco here in Ohio. Bottom line is look at the qualifier numbers compared to what they used to be and you will see it is a lost art. I used to love it and excel at it, but now you go to a qualifier and there are 3 kids in a weight class. I think we need to revive the sport in the state before we ask why no one is coming to watch the sport."
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I totally agree with this assessment, I think it is partly due to some coaches not promoting it enough and lack of knowledge thereof.
Only speaking from my own experiences, my boys would have never wrestled any elite competition if they had not wrestled any USA/AAU santioned tourneys, with their high school electing to wrestle a weak and wattered down schedule.
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Discussion Topic: US Open In Cleveland April 22-25
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on April 28, 2010
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Mark N---
if your kids don't know the FR & GR rules, skills, & nuances, that its a world sport, who the stars are-- then is it not possible to learn?? its not nuclear physics, heck i learned it. Why not educate ourselves, why not expand our horizons, why not introduce kids to something new?? It is an important part of our sport AND it was here in Ohio.
If they knew the FILA sport maybe some kids would want to wrestle the Olympic styles off-season, become better wrestlers, meet kids from other schools while engaged in competition, learn a new set of skills. Thats how i see it, but what do i know? s/BobP
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Discussion Topic: US Open In Cleveland April 22-25
John Drumm added to this discussion on April 28, 2010
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Bob:
I agree and subscribe to the point of view that if you want to learn something, do the research yourself. Back in the day, we went to the library to educate ourselves. Today, the internet is a main source.
But is a "go figure it out yourself" approach conducive to effective promotion of FS & Greco to the "common fan", particularly in today's socioeconomic climate? I am not a marketing guru, but I would have to guess- No.
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Discussion Topic: US Open In Cleveland April 22-25
Roe Fox added to this discussion on April 28, 2010
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I agree with Tony.
I also appreciated the classy way USA Wrestling's president (I think USA Wreslting) put it in the PD the other day when he said it was his group's responsibiltiy to grow the fan base and despite their considerable efforts they need to do more.
People have frequently commented on here in the past about the difficulty in filling even local high school gyms for folkstyle matches; a little naive to think the Wolstein Center will be filled for wrestlng disciplines that 99% of sports fans are exposed to in the middle of the night on TV every four years during the Olympics.
Ohio has supported in great measure national wrestling events with which it is familiar. I went to all but one of the NCAA sessions in 98 at the Wolstein. The place was packed. Senior Nats was pretty well attended when it was here. State's are always sold out. The Ironman could pretty easily fill a bigger and better venue. It draws not just wrestlers but fans from other states. Where is the indignation for other states' fans not attending?
Ben Roethlisberger and Tiger Woods are disgraces. Ohio wrestling fans who did not fill the Wolstein this last weekend are not.
And the economy stinks, particularly in NE Ohio where I live. I have friends who love wrestling but putting a tank of gas in their car for $15 right now was more important to them.
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Discussion Topic: US Open In Cleveland April 22-25
Ben Golden added to this discussion on April 28, 2010
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I'll say this: I'd only watched a few freestyle matches before and was only vaguely familiar with the rules. I was kind of worried I wouldn't enjoy the tournament, but it was an incredibly awesome experience. It took me a little while to catch on to the rules, but I really gained an appreciation for freestyle (I watched some greco matches too, but for the most part).
There was a ton of action. More than you typically see in folkstyle tournaments. Also, the talent level and the names you saw (both wrestling and on the sidelines) was second to none. I went to last year's Big Ten tournament and it was awesome, but I probably enjoyed this more. Now, my circumstances were different in the two outings, but the point stands.
Anyway, I know a lot of high schoolers aren't going to be familiar with the big names, but most people on this site would be (and if not, you'll learn quick and love all the action anyway). I don't blame anyone for not going, but I think if you're at all able to go next year, you would find it well worth it.
I also think high schoolers could appreciate the action and quality wrestling as well.
Just my two cents.
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Discussion Topic: US Open In Cleveland April 22-25
Tony Bradberry added to this discussion on April 28, 2010
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Something I was thinking about:
We are the only sport in high schools that have two sports under one name. Folk style and then freestyle would be like asking baseball players to play softball in the off season (don’t take that the wrong way either its not any easier just different). I think the problem may be that most people just don't want to have to learn new rules or styles. They want to focus on one style just like every other sport does.
Just my two cents. Not saying I agree with this Idea, but I think this may be one of the issues.
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