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Discussion Topic: All-Americans from Ohio (High Schools or Colleges)
Rex Holman added to this discussion on March 20, 2010
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Discussion Topic: All-Americans from Ohio (High Schools or Colleges)
Rex Holman added to this discussion on March 20, 2010
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Ethan-
I hope you know that I meant no disrespect in saying that Marion won the handfighting war against Germaine. Marion was fairly predictable in going to a collar wrist tie with snaps to the head. I had trouble with the Iowa collar tie until I figured out how to pass the elbow effectively. If Germaine had it in his arsenal it would have changed the dynamic of the match as it neutralizes the collar wrist and creates an opportunity and more importantly you don't get tired from some guy hanging on your head. If Germaine works Big Walnut's camp again, I would like to work with him on it. He did an outstanding job on the biggest stage in collegiate wrestling.
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Discussion Topic: All-Americans from Ohio (High Schools or Colleges)
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on March 20, 2010
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Rex - you can't offend me, that's for sure. And Germaine couldn't pick me out a line up, so no disrespect whatsoever. I come to this site solely for the level of wrestling knowledge and because most of the discussion is about college wrestling. (if I ever see a thread titled "Biggest studs at 55 lbs division two" like I do on other sites, I will cry and turn off the computer...) I really enjoy your opinion.
I am a huge OSU fan, but try to keep the exploits of OU and KSU in play on a lot of these forums just because they are often over looked.
You were correct, too. I watched the bout last night. Marion won the hand fighting battle without a doubt, and Germaine did look worn down as OT began. Just shows you how physical college wrestling is, because Luke has told me that Germaine has an endless motor.
I am still bitter that Reece wasn't seeded more accurately. He is 6-10 points better than Marion.
I also believe that Ohio kids are often exposed for the lack of mat wrestling in high school. I know it's been discussed often on this site, but it really came to light this weekend. Even Lindsey, if he could have held Marion down for a mere few more seconds the three times he was on top he may be wrestling tonight. Sponseller, Reece, etc. Several examples.
Reece taking neutral in the second last night - has there been any conversation about that on here? I was suprised. Specifically because he had a lead and some RT accrued. (not much, but 20 seconds maybe?)
As stated on another topic last week, I think Dake is special. And I really appreciate wrestling as a whole when I see Ivy league kids at the top of the podium. You'll never see this in football, basketball, etc.
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Discussion Topic: All-Americans from Ohio (High Schools or Colleges)
Bill Watson added to this discussion on March 20, 2010
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Rex,
In attempt to tie a few other discussions to this one I have a question.
How can Ohio make Top & Bottom wrestle return to the high school ranks?
Will it have to start in grade school?
Being from East Liverpool we grew up wrestling PA kids a lot. I alway thought Top and bottom were my strong points till high school, when I too becames a fan of takedowns due to coaching. We have a mindset on takedowns meaning more, will we ever shake that?
I guess what I am asking is to remediate you thesis on how we can make wrestling more entertaining and tell me your thoughts on how Ohio can break this top bottom enigma.
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Discussion Topic: All-Americans from Ohio (High Schools or Colleges)
Rex Holman added to this discussion on March 20, 2010
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Ethan-
cool.
Bill-
If riding time were eliminated, it would have changed a number of outcomes this weekend.
Riding has to be a priority for the coach as ultimately the coach influences the style of the wrestler. Development is an endless process, how far along that continuum is dependent upon the emphasis of practice and accrued knowledge of the wrestler. Parts of practice have to be geared for top/bottom wrestling. Here is the thing, if kids always do top/bottom at the end when they are tired, they are more likely to loaf and be unproductive. So, some days top/bottom comes first. Also, situational stuff of starting in specific positions helps kids connect the dots as a lot of times they are just uncertain how to proceed. Case in point, Lance looked at the coaches in the scramble against Metcalf to figure out what to do. It comes down to adequate preparation and empowering the wrestler through skill development and forcing them into situations to figure out what works. Kind of like dangling the carrot in front of them to get from point a to b, until they know the way on their own.
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Discussion Topic: All-Americans from Ohio (High Schools or Colleges)
Nicholas Sestito added to this discussion on March 20, 2010
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Lance will take second after a 3-2 loss to Brent Metcalf. Lance getting ridden in the 1st and early parts of the 2nd periods are what got him. He just couldn't mount any neutral attacks.
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Discussion Topic: All-Americans from Ohio (High Schools or Colleges)
Christopher Henderson added to this discussion on March 20, 2010
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I think the Palmer loss just reinforces some disturbing trends at Ohio State.
The inability to get out in less than a minute in the first period was the first thing.
The decision to go down in the second period when top is your strength is another problem. This may have been the first time I have seen a Palmer match where he never got to put his legs in or working a power half. Sad.
The third thing was giving his leg to Metcalf right off the whistle just like at the big ten tournament.
The fourth and final main problem was waiting until that last 24 seconds to take his first real attack. It's pretty hard to beat a Cleveland State Viking with that strategy.
It might be a good idea for the tOSU staff to redshirt every wrestler they can and teach them how to get out from bottom for an entire year straight. This could especially help Sponseller. Let him train on bottom for a year while we get to see Garcia. Maybe Tom Ryan needs to hire a designated bottom wrestling coach. And a match strategy coach.
How about Ness's and Dake's wins? Those were epic! You couldn't help but cheer for those guys. They don't wrestle not to lose. They wrestle to win.
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Discussion Topic: All-Americans from Ohio (High Schools or Colleges)
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on March 20, 2010
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Chris - Palmer was wrestling one of the most dominant college wrestlers of the past 10 years. Are you being too critical of the team and staff? I would say yes.
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Discussion Topic: All-Americans from Ohio (High Schools or Colleges)
Christopher Henderson added to this discussion on March 20, 2010
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I am being too hard on those guys. I am letting out my frustration after watching the worst performance by Ohio wrestlers at the National Tournament in at least a decade. Hopefully, getting mad at failure will help inspire some improvement for next year. I remember my high school wrestling coach was hardest on the best wrestlers. That's why he was so nice to me all the time.
Also, now that the season is over, will anyone tell us what was wrong with Mike Pucillo this year? I understand that during the season you have to keep this stuff secret so your opponents don't get the upper hand. Hopefully now, someone will come clean so we can understand.
But you got to give it up to Dake and Ness. That was some awesome stuff.
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Discussion Topic: All-Americans from Ohio (High Schools or Colleges)
Don Bork added to this discussion on March 21, 2010
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www.themat.com has interviews of all the third place finishers. The interview with Reece was interesting and he alluded to Mikey being really hurting but nothing specific. He was also quite candid and gracious when speaking of Kyle Dake.
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Discussion Topic: All-Americans from Ohio (High Schools or Colleges)
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 21, 2010
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Chris: I admire you for speaking candidly but disagree. Lance is great on bottom. No one can get out when his inside wrist is controlled and his same side knee is being torqued to by a guy who is making no attempt to move up. It was a blatant stall and there was nothing Lance could do except to wait for the official to break it--which he did after a minute. There's a very good chance that Metcalf wins that match without the riding time point as he probably would have gotten out on bottom but the ref blew it in my opinion.
As for Reece Humphrey, here's what is odd. He has been excellent on bottom throughout his career. I remember Jimmy Kennedy riding him one time but Reece got a reversal after being ridden most of the period. He took bottom last year against Jayson Ness and got out and that guy scares me more from top than Dake. The strategy used with Hump was the one that should have been employed for Sponseller.
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Discussion Topic: All-Americans from Ohio (High Schools or Colleges)
Christopher Henderson added to this discussion on March 21, 2010
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Hank, you are right about Metcalf's leg stall. The only reason for twisting Palmer's knee was to either stall, because you can't turn someone over with their leg between yours, or to injure the leg. It seems like refs give Iowa wrestlers way too much leeway before they call a stall. Morningstar comes to mind. I think it might have something to do with the "Iowa reputation" of wrestling aggressive all the time. They do wrestle hard, but it's not always offensive.
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Discussion Topic: All-Americans from Ohio (High Schools or Colleges)
Nicholas Sestito added to this discussion on March 21, 2010
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I agree on the issue of Iowa's brand of wrestling. They tie up, push forward, and have their back to the center of the mat. It gives them the appearance of doing work when it really isn't doing anything. Don't get me wrong, they do get the takedowns, but they aren't Lincoln McIlravy out there. While that sounds entirely negative against Iowa's wrestling, it's also the responsibility of the opposing wrestler to keep the Iowa wrestler from doing this. That means doing the exact same thing and being more aggressive with the takedowns so refs will be forced to ding Hawkeyes with stalling. But that's just an amateur's look at this issue.
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Discussion Topic: All-Americans from Ohio (High Schools or Colleges)
Ethan Moore added to this discussion on March 22, 2010
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Just watched Zeb's post nationals interviews with Mitcheff, Lindsey, Greenlee, Andrassy. Some great emotions and great people.
It's obvious that Mitcheff was very important to the KSU program. He was a great college wrestler, a lot of fun to watch. Always attacking. Sounds like a great young man, as well.
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