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Discussion Topic: I'm trying to find out some info from an OLD state bracket... Li'l help???
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on March 10, 2010
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Tournament: State Tournament
Year:1972
Class: AAA
Weight: 185
If you know of ANY of these schools or names, or even have the ability to find these people or ask how the finished or the score of a match, by all means, feel free to do so!
Phil Wilcox (Lima Shamwnee)
Mark Metzger (Akron Ellet)
Ed Moore (Ashtabula)
Dave Williams (Cincinnati. Princeton)
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Ike Emerson (Cincinnati. Oak Hill)
Bill Thomas (Brunswick)
Pat Curto (Groveport)
Terry Marshall (Cleveland. Collinwood)
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Robby Jackson (Day. Patterson)
Rick Layman (Worthington)
Tim Davis (Warren Western Reserve)
Steve Blasingame (Euclid)
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Will Page (Dover)
Christopher Solarz (Maumee)
Charles Schill (Cleveland. West Tech)
Dave Aker (Kett. Fairmont East)
I know Pat Curto beat Tim Davis in the finals by dec. 4-3. But if anybody is ever in the halls of any of these schools and sees a name - like Bill Thomas - placing 4th at this weight class, that would be awesome!
I'm trying to get one of those large brackets in our room for Pat Curto but in order to do so, I'll have to fake scores and placers or find the real thing. I thought I'd start with honesty! :-)
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Discussion Topic: I'm trying to find out some info from an OLD state bracket... Li'l help???
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on March 10, 2010
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Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
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"I know Pat Curto beat Tim Davis in the finals by dec. 4-3. But if anybody is ever in the halls of any of these schools and sees a name - like Bill Thomas - placing 4th at this weight class, that would be awesome!"
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3rd Place: Ed Moore (Ashtabula) dec. Steve Blasingame (Euclid) 8-2
5th Place: Ike Emerson (Cincinnati Oak Hills) won by forfeit over Charles Schill (Cleveland West Tech)
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Discussion Topic: I'm trying to find out some info from an OLD state bracket... Li'l help???
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on March 11, 2010
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WARNING: Ackward moment forthcoming...
I love you.
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Discussion Topic: I'm trying to find out some info from an OLD state bracket... Li'l help???
Greg Debbe added to this discussion on March 11, 2010
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Rodriguez
Did you get that information out of that file cabinet, I mean, 3 ring binder you had at the state tournament? Which section was it in? You know, you could sell those next year. It could be a great supplement to the program.
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Discussion Topic: I'm trying to find out some info from an OLD state bracket... Li'l help???
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on March 11, 2010
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Who dropped where and when did they drop?
I have the actual bracket from the program and the consolation bracket is a six-man format where line 1 is a semifinal loser who wrestles the winner of lines 2 and 3. Where did the wrestlers from lines 2 and 3 come from? Was it follow you man here?
Lines 4 and 5 would wrestle for the chance to wrestle line 6, who was the other semifinal loser.
So many questions! When did the losers cross bracket? If at all???
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Discussion Topic: I'm trying to find out some info from an OLD state bracket... Li'l help???
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on March 11, 2010
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It appears that I was correct about lines 1 and 6 being the semifinal losers.
From there I'm not sure.
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Discussion Topic: I'm trying to find out some info from an OLD state bracket... Li'l help???
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on March 11, 2010
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I figured out how I want to ask my question...
Who drops and when do they drop?
If I lost my first match, would I drop to the consolation match?
My guess is that that would depend on if the guy that beat me in the first round won his next match. If that is the case, then I would hope that there was a cross bracket. Otherwise, I could lose to a guy in the first round, then win my first conso match only to - possibly - face that first round guy again!?!?!
And you old timers LIKE this!? ;-)
In this particular bracket, Ed Moore, Steve Blasingame and Charles Schill are confusing me.
Thanks.
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Discussion Topic: I'm trying to find out some info from an OLD state bracket... Li'l help???
Dan Cosimi added to this discussion on March 11, 2010
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Your bracket doesn't make sense unless either:
A) They didn't cross-bracket the semifinalists or
B) Osgood's book (where Mike got the finals results) was incorrect
Here's how the carry system worked (as of the late 90's)...
Quarter #1
A - Champion
B - 0-1, Carried
C - 0-1, Out
D - Quarterfinalist
Quarter #2
E - Quarterfinalist
F - 0-1, Out
G - 0-1, Carried
H - Semifinalist
Quarter #3
I - Semifinalist
J - 0-1, Carried
K - 0-1, Out
L - Quarterfinalist
Quarter #4
M - Quarterfinalist
N - 0-1, Out
O - 0-1, Carried
P - Runner-up
Consolation Eighthfinals
D (Quarterfinalist Q1) v. B (Carried Q1)
E (Quarterfinalist Q2) v. G (Carried Q2)
L (Quarterfinalist Q3) v. J (Carried Q3)
M (Quarterfinalist Q4) v. O (Carried Q4)
Consolation Quarterfinals
D/B v. E/G
L/J v. M/O
Consolation Semifinals
I (Semifinalist from Bottom Half) v. D/B/E/G
H (Semifinalist from Top Half) v. L/J/M/O
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Discussion Topic: I'm trying to find out some info from an OLD state bracket... Li'l help???
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on March 11, 2010
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Or did the two guys that the finalist beat get to go down?
Then the semifinalist would wrestle the winner of those first bouts???
Good God, who thinks of this garbage? And where is/are he/she/them that we might bash his/her/their head(s) in!?!?!?!
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Discussion Topic: I'm trying to find out some info from an OLD state bracket... Li'l help???
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on March 11, 2010
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I think my last formula works!
I think it was different in the late 90s as opposed to the early 70s. Why they didn't use the system we have now is beyond me. Apparently greed does have advantages! ;-)
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Discussion Topic: I'm trying to find out some info from an OLD state bracket... Li'l help???
Rex Holman added to this discussion on March 11, 2010
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Is Pat Curto related to Alex Garcia? I think I heard a story one time.
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Discussion Topic: I'm trying to find out some info from an OLD state bracket... Li'l help???
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on March 11, 2010
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Dan...In a "follow your man" format, there's no reason to cross bracket at the semis (or any other time). I think the difference between the bracket you're looking at and the one from '72 is that in the early '90 the OHSAA switched from follow your man to the finals to follow your man to the semis. The rules were changed at the District level while I was in high school ('87-'90), but they didn't change at the State Tourny until after I graduated. At the end of my career, if you lost in the first round of Disticts, then the wrestler who beat you had to make the semis. If he lost in the quarter, the first round loser was out. In a set-up like that you would need some cross-bracketing to avoid wrestling the same guy twice early in conos.
The State Tourny in 1972 (and in 1990) was follow your man to the finals...meaning that if you lost in the first round, then you wait until after the semi-finals to know whether you were in or out. If the guy that beat you makes the finals, then you had to wrestle the guy he beat in the quarters and then the winner of that would wrestle the guy who he beat in the semis.
So, in the set-up we have above, Ed Moore (Ashtabula) beat Dave Williams (Cincinnati. Princeton) in the first round and beat either Phil Wilcox (Lima Shamwnee) or Mark Metzger (Akron Ellet) in the quarters. Ed Moore moved on to the semis where he lost to Pat Curto (Groveport). Curto beat Terry Marshall (Cleveland. Collinwood) in the first round, and then beat Ike Emerson (Cincinnati. Oak Hill) in the quarters. Williams, Wilcox and Metzger were eliminated because they lost to someone who was not a finalist. Emerson dropped down and beat Marshall in the first round of consos, and then lost to Ed Moore in the conso semis.
Same on the other side. Tim Davis (Warren Western Reserve) beat Steve Blasingame (Euclid) and Charles Schill (Cleveland. West Tech) in the semis. Blasingame beat Davis' quarter finals opponent (either Robby Jackson (Day. Patterson) or Rick Layman (Worthington) ) and then it looks like Schill was hurt in that semi and just defaulted to 6th.
So in that flawed system, Blasingame won one bout and took fourth, while Emerson won two bouts and took fifth.
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Last edited by Michael Rodriguez on March 11, 2010; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: I'm trying to find out some info from an OLD state bracket... Li'l help???
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on March 11, 2010
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Quote from Rex Holman's post:
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"Is Pat Curto related to Alex Garcia? I think I heard a story one time."
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Not that I know of. However, a teammate of his, SQ Tom Pollitt was somehow related to Alex Garcia (Columbus Academy) - state champ, 92???
Tom Pollitt was (I think) was Alex's dad. Tom also had a couple of girls, one my brother graduated with and another that I graduated with.
From the stories I've heard growing up, Tom was pretty much the man when it came to just about every area in life. A life that was cut short due to a motorcycle accident.
Michael: It appears I was figuring it out when Dan was posting.
Again, what an amazing, yet unfortunate circumstance of events the state tournament must have been back then. I suppose it's no worse than calling it a state tournament but yet it's by invitation only!?!?!?!?!
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Discussion Topic: I'm trying to find out some info from an OLD state bracket... Li'l help???
Mike Taylor added to this discussion on March 11, 2010
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Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
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" I suppose it's no worse than calling it a state tournament but yet it's by invitation only!?!?!?!?!"
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Huh?
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Discussion Topic: I'm trying to find out some info from an OLD state bracket... Li'l help???
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on March 11, 2010
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The first 5 to 7 "State" tournaments were by invitational only. You didn't think Cleveland John Hay or Cleveland West Tech was THAT good, did you!?
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