|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Eds V Wadworth
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 6, 2010
|
The difference between the two teams is probably Abounader not placing at 152. I don't know what was expected but he went 1-2 after winning the district. Please---not trying to blame the kid. It's just what I noticed. He may have overachieved to do so well at districts.
Do most think Wadsworth will hang on to win?
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Eds V Wadworth
Steve Lester added to this discussion on March 7, 2010
|
I don't think he overacheived at district. Definitely not.
The story of the state meet this year was one team with talent that also had across-the-board experience vs. a team with talent that had pockets of inexperience. That was the whole ball game.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Eds V Wadworth
Mark Palumbo added to this discussion on March 7, 2010
|
How big was the pin at 135. (5:59). Can some one provided details. One second left?
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Eds V Wadworth
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 7, 2010
|
Steve: Good summation although there are so many ways that the final result could have been reversed. Bottom line: Wadsworth did a great job and do Eds. Classic battle.
I am dismayed by what I see as an inability of too many programs across Ohio to produce quality challengers for these two squads. If you combined Eds and Wadsworth for a dual they could conceivably beat an all-star team from every other program in D1. That would never happen in PA or NJ. Ohio schools, particularly in the NE, used to be littered with studs. The teams might not be great but they had individuals that could challenge for state titles. That number seems to be dwindling.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Eds V Wadworth
Eric Jaynes added to this discussion on March 7, 2010
|
Martin from Eds was down by one and, with about 10 seconds left, they got into a scramble and Martin was off balance and tried to roll through his back in a desperation attempt at a takedown. Louden dropped his hips as he was rolling through and Martin just got stuck. It was a very quick turn of events and the crowd went crazy!
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Eds V Wadworth
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on March 7, 2010
|
You know, I was talking with a friend of mine earlier today and we both mentioned little things that didn't go the Eagles way and the little things that did go the way of the Grizzlies.
It was little things that make a big difference... both ways.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Eds V Wadworth
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 8, 2010
|
"That would never happen in PA or NJ. Ohio schools, particularly in the NE, used to be littered with studs. The teams might not be great but they had individuals that could challenge for state titles. That number seems to be dwindling."
---------------------------------------
Hank, i agree and yes weve debated that, and i think finally convinced even Steve Lester that the Greater Cleveland area definitely Not what it used to be in wrestling 20, 30, 40 years ago. But after all Cuyahoga County has lost an amazing 1/3 of its population since 1970, not just Cleveland but the entire county.
not as much talent to go around and its centered in a very few schools in NE Ohio. Use to be St Richards parish would provide some of st Eds best and still field many standouts on N Olmsteds outstanding teams under coaches Tom Peters and Tom Milkovich. There was an embarassment of riches in the Greater Cleveland area.
Thats just an example. There was Longwood Y, East Cleveland Y, West End Y which was actually out east --- Westshore Y which is still strong and various CYO parishes like St Richards.
The PDs Tim Warsinsky called me a couple weeks ago and asked me if i ever thought a public school like Wadsworth could challenge st Eds. i told Tim YES for sure i always thought so--- just need the right coach, a desirable school district and community support. Wadsworth has that now with Gramuglia and their great youth program.
but theres only so many standout coaches dedicated to the sport to go around. And they have to be in the right location, its like dropping seed on soil, need fertile soil or the seed wont sprout. s/BobP
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Eds V Wadworth
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 8, 2010
|
Another component for a public school to beat Eds is that it needs to be in a district with open enrollment. That's a huge advantage over schools with geographic boundaries.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Eds V Wadworth
Steve Lester added to this discussion on March 8, 2010
|
Haha. Now I know why I felt my ears ringing.
I have been hanging my hat on NQs (and AAs) for the NCAAs, but that appears woefully down vs. last year.
Still the Medina sectional, alone, outscored the entire Fairfield district at state this weekend. On the other hand the Columbus district's state scoring was within a few percentage points of the Mentor district.
Greater Cleveland still has wrestling power and great coaches, but since I can't argue with the facts, I remain properly chastened.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Eds V Wadworth
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on March 9, 2010
|
|
Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
|
|
"Another component for a public school to beat Eds is that it needs to be in a district with open enrollment. That's a huge advantage over schools with geographic boundaries."
|
Great point. Mike Milkovich isn't walking in any closed enrollment school's wrestling room anytime soon.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Eds V Wadworth
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 9, 2010
|
ha, ha, u no chastened Steve-- but if you'd been at Mentor district in its heyday you'd agree with me, its a no-brainer for those who recall sometimes Brakemans # 1 not even geting out of Mentor. Mentor was as much drama as state.
Greater Cleveland not near what it used to be, even Walsh Jesuit a shadow of former self. St Eds best kids used to be challenged at Mentor district by kids from a wide variety of NE Ohio schools like N Olmsted, Lake Catholic, st Joes, st Ignatius, Elyria, Maple, Solon, Nordonia, and like Hank says many other schools had one or two studs.
Now theres only Wadsworth to challenge st Eds (and they send em to Ashland and Perrysburg and parts unknown).
|
Last edited by Bob Preusse on March 9, 2010; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Eds V Wadworth
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on March 9, 2010
|
|
Quote from Bob Preusse's post:
|
|
"no chastened Steve-- but if you'd been at Mentor district in its heyday you'd agree with me, its a no-brainer for those who recall sometimes Brakemans # 1 not even geting out of Mentor.
Greater Cleveland not near what it used to be, even Walsh Jesuit a shadow of former self. St Eds best kids used to be challenged at Mentor district by kids form a variety of NE Ohio schools, now theres only Wadsworth to challenge st Eds (and they send em to Ashland and Perrysburg and parts unknown)."
|
Bob, why do you think that is?
Just not as much overall talent to spread around as there used to be?
Eds stockpiling kids?
Young boys getting burned out by starting so early and wrestling too much as youth?
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Eds V Wadworth
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on March 9, 2010
|
yes Gary, i think youve hit on a couple reasons, not as much overall talent. Cuyahoga County has lost 1/3 of its population since 1970. And as Greater Cleveland has become less blue collar with the loss of so many good manufacturing jobs, those families have left the area or disintegrated.
Maple was a dynasty with the Milkovich's and its blue collar, hard working ethnic familes supplied plenty of material to work with.
And then theres the former great youth clubs that aren't nearly as properous anymore, the many CYO parishes, East Cleveland Y, West End Y, Longwood Y.
so its a combined culture change and population loss, imo.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Eds V Wadworth
Bill Splete added to this discussion on March 10, 2010
|
Bob,
I really like your points and are the best reasons why the wrestling numbers are were there at up here in the north east. Back in the day if you won mentor, you didn't have a tough match until the semi's at state. The landscape has changed. But to be real honest. St. Ed's has carried us all for many years, yah some of us broke through St.Joes, in 90 and the Walsh teams right after. But when you travel the country the team they all know is St.Ed's and I took pride in that. I was from that area, and we beat them a time or two, so it felt good that the country always knew us, now Wadsworth breaks through and they did it the old fashion way, tough hard nosed get on your head great stance wrestling. Things have changed, but the way I see it beast may not just be in the north east now, but we will say the north, that way we have Ed's and Wadsworth and that is some good company. Those two teams are old school. Love them or hate them there the one's we have to chase.
By the way this is a side note. I don't like to comment on high school kids but I had to mention this. I don't know Brad Squire personally so my only reference is through watching him compete. I dig the way this kid does it, like sulzer, tough, great stance, moves forward gets on the head and is scoring all the time. But that is not what I want to mention. This struck me and I wanted to comment. I would never tell someone how to celebrate a win like states, but if I could it would be how Brad handled it. After he won, time runs out, he gets up, shakes his opponents hand, acknowledges the battle, the opponent leaves the mat, and then he let's us know how much the win ment, It seemed very genuine and We all must tip our hat to the kid who works the hardest, no matter were he goes to school. I wish him the best at OU.
|
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic: Eds V Wadworth
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on March 10, 2010
|
I watched Brad Squire lose his soph year in the state finals and came away very impressed. Even then, he had a great all-around skill set. He's a terrific pickup for a rising OU program.
No secret as to why public school wrestling programs in Cuyahoga County are down. As jobs/opportunities vacate, we're left with an ever increasing number of children that grow up in circumstances that produce crappy kids. Our socio-economic malaise has led to the weakening of what was once known as the "suburban hotbeds of Cleveland." The number of forfeits is staggering as is the list of once solid programs that are currently terrible. The only antidote is to have strong youth programs with good role models as coaches in the midst of these areas. Maple has hung on for that reason.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
