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Discussion Topic: Public vs. Private Schools Athletics
Kevin Petrella added to this discussion on March 3, 2010
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I think what would help is that ALL Catholic schools need boundaries. Here in Columbus, The 5 main Catholic schools have boundaries. You can not live in Columbus, or any of its surrounding suburbs, and attend any Col. Catholic school that you would like.
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Discussion Topic: Public vs. Private Schools Athletics
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on March 3, 2010
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Quote from Kevin Petrella's post:
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"I think what would help is that ALL Catholic schools need boundaries. Here in Columbus, The 5 main Catholic schools have boundaries. You can not live in Columbus, or any of its surrounding suburbs, and attend any Col. Catholic school that you would like."
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Interesting. I was not aware of that. Has that rule always been in effect?
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Discussion Topic: Public vs. Private Schools Athletics
Kevin Petrella added to this discussion on March 3, 2010
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I actually am not sure how long it's been in affect. Students who live in Columbus Bishop Hartley's "district" that want to go to Col. DeSales must get a waivered signed by Bishop Hartley's principal. Let me tell you, this does not get signed very often if at all. everyone is fighting for enrollment.
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Discussion Topic: Public vs. Private Schools Athletics
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on March 3, 2010
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Quote from Kevin Petrella's post:
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"I actually am not sure how long it's been in affect. Students who live in Columbus Bishop Hartley's "district" that want to go to Col. DeSales must get a waivered signed by Bishop Hartley's principal. Let me tell you, this does not get signed very often if at all. everyone is fighting for enrollment."
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You answered my next question. I was wondering how easy it is for a student to use that loophole to be able to attend a school out of district. Sounds like not very easy at all.
I know this isn't the case in NE Ohio. I distinctly remember hearing a radio commercial for St. Ignatius that said how they had students attending from seven different counties. My first thought was "how is a school with only students from one zip code supposed to compete with that?" And the answer in many cases is, they can't.
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Discussion Topic: Public vs. Private Schools Athletics
Kevin Petrella added to this discussion on March 3, 2010
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This makes me wonder if they want to change something, how about making these schools do the same as the central ohio catholic ones and then if the problem is still not better (it will never really be "fixed") then think of other things to do. Let's not split the two immediately or do multipliers.
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Discussion Topic: Public vs. Private Schools Athletics
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on March 3, 2010
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Quote from Kevin Petrella's post:
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"This makes me wonder if they want to change something, how about making these schools do the same as the central ohio catholic ones and then if the problem is still not better (it will never really be "fixed") then think of other things to do. Let's not split the two immediately or do multipliers."
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I don't think they would ever be able to do something like that up here. Ignatius carries quite a bit of weight with the local Diocese and I don't see anyone being able to impose anything like that on them. Plus there a quite a few influential Ignatius alum who I am sure would not go for that either.
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Discussion Topic: Public vs. Private Schools Athletics
Kevin Petrella added to this discussion on March 3, 2010
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Even if OHSAA imposed something?
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Discussion Topic: Public vs. Private Schools Athletics
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on March 3, 2010
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Quote from Kevin Petrella's post:
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"Even if OHSAA imposed something?"
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I don't see how the OHSAA an impose any rules on a private entity regarding who they can and cannot take in as students. Sure, the Diocese could since the school I would assume has an affiliation with it.
I could be wrong, but just don't see what role the OHSAA could have in this. Frankly, if the OHSAA did step in for just parochials I would think they would have to do it for the privates as well, and I would think that would be waaaaay overstepping their bounds.
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Discussion Topic: Public vs. Private Schools Athletics
Kevin Petrella added to this discussion on March 3, 2010
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Maybe they don't do it by forcing it but rather saying:
You set up boundaries or you cannot compete in OHSAA tournaments.
If those schools choose the latter, I believe they'll take a large hit in enrollment.
Not only do those schools have the advantage against the public schools but they have an advantage over other private/catholic schools as well.
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Discussion Topic: Public vs. Private Schools Athletics
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on March 3, 2010
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But I can see where some sue-happy mommy or daddy in today's society will take the OHSAA to court for trying to stop Jimmy or Susie from being able to compete.
Not saying you are completely wrong, but I can see some who will think that.
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Discussion Topic: Public vs. Private Schools Athletics
Roe Fox added to this discussion on March 3, 2010
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Kevin is right. They can set the rules for the OHSAA. A suit would not be successful.
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Discussion Topic: Public vs. Private Schools Athletics
Steve Lester added to this discussion on March 3, 2010
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The rules in Pennsyvania have some sections that apply to Catholic Schools. Every athlete entering 9th grade is considered a "transfer" and is subject to a review as to whether his prospective high school is the appropriate one on based on where he attended middle school. "No transfers for athlete reasons" would (I assume) apply though I'm not sure of the nuts and bolts of their decision-making. Just as the OHSAA rulebook is difficult in places to interpret so are the PIAA rules. Bottom line, the advantages enjoyed by some Ohio parochials are not permitted in PA.
I understand that not all Ohio Catholic schools have what you might call "open enrollment" from middle schools. I read on another forum that Moeller DID NOT have open enrollment at one time, but it changed based on a decision of the local diocese.
I think OHSAA could be more aggressive in controlling the stockpiling of talent by private schools. But any changes in rules should be carefully weighed against the law of unintended consequences.
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Discussion Topic: Public vs. Private Schools Athletics
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on March 4, 2010
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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"Kevin is right. They can set the rules for the OHSAA. A suit would not be successful."
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The OHSAA can state if you take students from outside a certain boundary you would not be able to compete in our tournament, and be successful at it?
Not sure you, or anyone, are in a position to give a legal opinion on that one.
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Discussion Topic: Public vs. Private Schools Athletics
Rick Wasmer added to this discussion on March 4, 2010
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I think everyone is missing some important points .
The reason catholic schools get kids from several differant counties is , every suburb has a catholic grade school . I went to St. Mary's in Olmsted Falls . So if parents want the kid to continue in catholic education , they have to send the kids to Eds or Ignatius .
The main reason Eds became so succesfull in wrestling wasn't because they could recruit . It was because they had a great youth program , the CYO wrestling , long before the youth programs got going everywhere else.
I think the Dies family in Akron should get great recognition for building the OhioYouth wrestling League . Look at the guys wrestling for the Buckeyes right now that came thru that league .
Palmers , Pucilo , Sponseller , coach Heskett , and I'm sure there are more I don't know of .
One more thing , Gary Sommers mentioned Eds got a Jewish kid from the east side , and SVSM got a group of Baptist mercenaries .
I want to say I'm impressed that anyone would know or care where these people went to church .
In the next paragraph Gary writes , "Of course SVSM clearly sold their soul when they took tens of thousands of dollars from the unwed father of two to build their athletic center .
I just think this comment is a little judgemental in a couple ways .
SVSM,,,,,are unwed , divorced , or single parents not allowed to contribute when the plate is passed ?
Lebron ,,,, I think the young guy has accomplished quite alot , and from everything I've seen , he is one of the good citizens in the NBA . Some of this may be attributed to the education he got at SVSM .
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Discussion Topic: Public vs. Private Schools Athletics
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on March 4, 2010
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Quote from Rick Wasmer's post:
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"I think everyone is missing some important points .
The reason catholic schools get kids from several differant counties is , every suburb has a catholic grade school . I went to St. Mary's in Olmsted Falls . So if parents want the kid to continue in catholic education , they have to send the kids to Eds or Ignatius .
The main reason Eds became so succesfull in wrestling wasn't because they could recruit . It was because they had a great youth program , the CYO wrestling , long before the youth programs got going everywhere else.
I think the Dies family in Akron should get great recognition for building the OhioYouth wrestling League . Look at the guys wrestling for the Buckeyes right now that came thru that league .
Palmers , Pucilo , Sponseller , coach Heskett , and I'm sure there are more I don't know of .
One more thing , Gary Sommers mentioned Eds got a Jewish kid from the east side , and SVSM got a group of Baptist mercenaries .
I want to say I'm impressed that anyone would know or care where these people went to church .
In the next paragraph Gary writes , "Of course SVSM clearly sold their soul when they took tens of thousands of dollars from the unwed father of two to build their athletic center .
I just think this comment is a little judgemental in a couple ways .
SVSM,,,,,are unwed , divorced , or single parents not allowed to contribute when the plate is passed ?
Lebron ,,,, I think the young guy has accomplished quite alot , and from everything I've seen , he is one of the good citizens in the NBA . Some of this may be attributed to the education he got at SVSM ."
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Rick my point was, and maybe there are others, but how many other Jewish boys attend Eds and how many other Baptists attend SVSM who are not elite athletes? My guess is very few, but admit I don't have hard data.
And of course people who were previously deemed by the Catholic church to be "living in sin" are allowed to contribute. After all, it is now the Catholic way. You see, I grew up in a time where divorced people were not welcome in the Church, at all. Now, divorcees can give Communion and guys with out-of-wedlock children can give thousands as long as the parish benefits.
I know parents of SVSM children who also thought the accepting of that money was very hypocritical, though of course there were some who did not and gladly took it from who previously (and for all I know currently if we were to ask God) would have been considered a sinner and made an outcast.
So no, no judging at all. It was how the Catholic Church "raised" me. And I suppose he might be one of the NBA's better citizens, though that is kind of like saying you are the tallest person in the land of midgets.
Now if only the "young guy" could accomplish what the true superstars have done and win a championship.
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