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Discussion Topic: Live from the Ironman Finals
Bob Preusse added to this discussion on December 13, 2009
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from coach (& former NCAA champion) Adam Tirapelle of Clovis California, he posted this on the California wrestlingforum, wow ! :
"For those who’ve never been as a competitor, a coach, or a fan (including me until this year), the Ironman was all that it was cracked up to be and more! It’s a level of wrestling that most would have a hard time understanding unless you witness it firsthand. The fact that guys like Logan Stieber, the Alton twins, and others are not only doing well in, but WINNING college tournaments in high school shows how unbelievable some of these kids are at such a young age. Add to that Stieber placing 4th at the US Freestyle World Trials in the Open Division last summer! And here’s what’s more amazing, these guys aren’t killing guys all the way through the bracket. Chris Villalonga from Blair Academy hasn’t lost in 3 years, and he won 3-2 in double overtime in the finals, after winning 6-4 in the semis. There are just so many good kids in the weight classes. There were kids in the stands after Day 1 that would win most high school tournaments. As I watched the wrestling unfold over two days, I kept thinking that wrestling has come so far at this level since I was in high school in 1996. Really unreal how good these high school wrestlers are nowadays.
If there was a grade higher than A+ for competition, I’d use it. Forget state champs losing. How about guys that previously won the Ironman? MOST of them did not only not win it again, but some finished in 4th, 5th, or 6th place! The level of competition is so high that seeding to some degree is almost meaningless. Other than the super-elite studs at a few weight classes, there were 20-25 kids in a 32-man bracket that could beat each other on a given day in a given match. Alec Dieter pinned a kid (2-2 match at the time) for 7th that I found out afterwards was there from Arizona, going for his 4th state title this year, and already signed a scholarship to Iowa State. I don’t think he planned on placing 8th. He was not alone either. Clinton McAlester beat a kid from Derry, PA that InterMat picked to finish 2nd, and this was two rounds before placing! The loser was eliminated. This was after Clint lost to a #11 seed from Ohio that eventually finished 5th. Moral – just great kids everywhere.
The place was packed from start to finish. The hospitality was outstanding. I think Ohio fans are second to none. Many, many people we met at the tournament were not there for a particular wrestler or team – they just came because they love wrestling and love watching kids at the Ironman. And not only did they come, but they knew the kids and who’d done what in what year, etc. I think the surreal part was when I heard what looked to be a 60-year old grandmother yell, “Stop handfighting and take a shot for Christ’s sake.” I knew we must be in Ohio. Completely electronic scoring is unique to the Ironman and super easy to follow. You know exactly when a kid is going to wrestle in real-time on all the mats in the two gyms. The training staff was excellent. The head table was manned by about 10-15 people at all times. The referees were very cordial in discussing things, hustled to do a great job, and ultimately did a fantastic job for that level of wrestling.
As for California, I thought we all (Clovis, Selma, Calvary Chapel, Gilroy, Foothill, San Lorenzo Valley, and Quincy) represented the Golden State very well. Each school had at least 1 medalist, two had finalists, and ole’ Tank Knowles took home the title with some impressive wrestling at 215. It’s important that we show people out there that we have wrestling too and some pretty good kids that can compete with the nation’s best.
That said, if you ever were or ever are thinking about taking a team or a group of individuals, I can’t say it’s for the unprepared. But the experience is 2nd to none in high school wrestling and if you are truly wondering who’s the best of the best, I highly recommend that you show up and find out."
__________________
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Discussion Topic: Live from the Ironman Finals
Pat Costilow added to this discussion on December 13, 2009
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Great comments from Tirapelle. I love the part about the grandmother.
Roe- Kiski is good academically and I remember competing against them in sports until the old IPSL disolved, but I think we may have discussed that before. Either way, it seems like a good situation for Luster. If he keeps focused, the sky is the limit for him.
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Discussion Topic: Live from the Ironman Finals
Pat Costilow added to this discussion on December 13, 2009
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BTW, was that Mark Moos I saw coaching with Eds, wearing an Eds polo? If so it addresses what has long been a rally cry from Eagle fans for a young, accomplished coach who can get on the mat with the wrestlers. Could be a great thing for their young talent, and that team is very young.
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Discussion Topic: Live from the Ironman Finals
Josh Lowe added to this discussion on December 13, 2009
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Quote from Pat Costilow's post:
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"BTW, was that Mark Moos I saw coaching with Eds, wearing an Eds polo? If so it addresses what has long been a rally cry from Eagle fans for a young, accomplished coach who can get on the mat with the wrestlers. Could be a great thing for their young talent, and that team is very young."
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They started nine sophs and a frosh this weekend. That will be eight soph and one frosh once Clark is healthy. Placing third with that is an accomplishment.
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Discussion Topic: Live from the Ironman Finals
Ben Golden added to this discussion on December 13, 2009
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I just watched the Stieber vs. Mitch match, and I don't think it was necessarily a bad call for a couple reasons.
1) I really don't think that was a reversal. Hunter got the initial takedown and had Mitch on his back in a banana split-ish tilt. There's sometimes a fine line between when the tilter has the tiltee on his back or the other way around.
2) At one point, it looked like Mitch may have been in control for a moment (italicize 'moment'), but when they came out of the scramble, Mitch was not in control.
I'm perfectly OK letting the ref use his discretion in this situation, and I think he did a good job. I'm not a ref, though.
Question: What's the rule on back points when the "top" wrestler's back is exposed?
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Discussion Topic: Live from the Ironman Finals
Jim Behrens added to this discussion on December 13, 2009
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Question: What's the rule on back points when the "top" wrestler's back is exposed?[/quote]
Assuming you mean the offensive wrestler, there can not be near fall points awarded to the defensive wrestlerl. Control MUST be achieved for near fall points to be earned.
A classic example is a double cradle. With a cradle applied, the man in control can not lose control or give up near fall points as long as the hands are locked. The good official will point to the man in control so the coach,and fans, know what is happening.
A pin can be achieved though if the offensive man leans too far back and pins himself.
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Discussion Topic: Live from the Ironman Finals
Pat Costilow added to this discussion on December 13, 2009
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Flo's angle makes the call seem right. The angle we had from the media row (the other side- where the stage is in the video) made Mitch's position look much more advantageous. I really am not sure anymore.
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Discussion Topic: Live from the Ironman Finals
Josh Lowe added to this discussion on December 14, 2009
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Quote from Pat Costilow's post:
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"Flo's angle makes the call seem right. The angle we had from the media row (the other side- where the stage is in the video) made Mitch's position look much more advantageous. I really am not sure anymore."
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That's where I'm coming from too, which is why I hated to overreact the way I did at the time. Though I tried to add a caveat of replay - thanks to Flo we have that (and from a different angle).
From where me and Pat were we couldn't see an interval with Stieber exposing Mitch's back. All we speculated was that the ref could have given a takedown call for having control by position slightly earlier in the sequence (i.e. before the mega scramble).
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Discussion Topic: Live from the Ironman Finals
Ben Golden added to this discussion on December 14, 2009
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