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Discussion Topic: Michigan State Open
Luke Moore added to this discussion on November 17, 2009
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Thanks for the great report Kevin.
After the first two weeks it looks like the Bobcats seems to be wrestling well. If they can stay healthy, this could be a good year for them. Add in Ison, Weinkam and Schuth to the mix of the guys that wreslted well last weekend, and you have a pretty strong team. Looking forward to seeing them in dual action.
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Discussion Topic: Michigan State Open
Pat Costilow added to this discussion on November 17, 2009
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Awesome coverage Kevin- just a couple of things-
Was that Justin Zeerip or the younger brother? Justin could still be a RS Soph, so it's possible, but I would imagine unless he is coming off of an injury, UM would want him in the open div.
Awesome tourney for Keller and Carlo (of whom I am an unabashed fan). Any positive signs are good for CSU.
OU has some really promising guys- I think the next couple of years could be the best they have had since the heyday of the late 90's and early parts of this decade.
Interesting to see Witt at 174 considering he was at 197 as a redshirt last year. But you are right, Kilgore is a roadblock at 84 and Cogar looks awesome at 197- nice problem to have- they look stacked up top for the next couple of years. And they still have Barlow at 285 for the next two years.
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Discussion Topic: Michigan State Open
Kevin Schlosser added to this discussion on November 17, 2009
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Capone was wrestling in the Open division. He did face Justin and beat him twice. Justin was their starter at 165 last season (believe Sponseller beat him 2-0 in the OSU-UM dual, Zeerip had just beaten Vallimont the weekend before) Capones ride out in the second period of the finals was the difference in that match and made an impression on me. JZ cut him in the third and Capone was able to block off a pretty good charge.
If not mistaken Justin is a RS sophomore and his brother Brandon is a freshman at 157/165. Zeerip started very slow last year but seemed to make a lot of progress as the season went on. He was wrestling much better in February-March than November-December. For Capone a year at Navy prep has obviously paid dividends, probably doesnt hurt that he has been in Columbus since June either.
A quick look at both OU and CSU and both have improved.
I think OU is starting to build some quality depth. Injuries had a lot to do with how last season ended for them so they are somewhat picking up where they left off in early February. OU could qualify guys at 133, 141, 157, 174, 184, 197, and 285. No way I am predicting they qualify seven with the number of bids the MAC gets, but I wouldnt be surprised if any of those weights were in Omaha. I think they get 2-4 if they continue to progress.
As far as CSU goes they are improving but it is going to continue to take time. I think they are improved at every weight other than 285. Improvement alone doesnt guarantee success but they are making progress. CSU has depth now that wasnt their last year but they are going to take a couple of years to mature before they turn the corner. A lot of their wrestlers have some good individual skills, but they need time to develop them before they are ready to run. I think Keller can make it to NCAA's with Effner (if healthy); Michaels and Carlo could be in the mix if they continue to improve
Witt and Magrum is a little ironic. Witt went to KSU as 197 and ended up a 174, Magrum went to OSU as a 174 and ended up a 197. As long as Witt can manage the weight he could end up a 3-4 year starter and could move up when Kilgore is done. Magrum is in the same boat and could be a 3-4 year starter and could be a factor at 184 or 197 depending on what happens with OSU recruiting at 184 and 197 as well as what happens with the guys in the room below him (Capone, Heflin, Demas, Sanders, Sponseller, Pendleton).
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Last edited by Kevin Schlosser on November 17, 2009; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: Michigan State Open
Josh Lowe added to this discussion on November 17, 2009
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Kevin:
The older Zeerip is the same grade as Sponseller.
The younger Zeerip graduated HS last year.
I can't see Ohio U getting seven to NCAA's because they probably don't have seven top 30 kids (that's what it takes to make the tournament). It's nothing to do with the MAC/Big10, etc inequity. Remember the system change.
Pat:
I'll admit to not really paying attention to the college scene. Just TOO much going on this early, with the big events two-three (or more) months away. I'll agree that any incremental progress at Cleveland State is positive -- just creating a positive culture is very important.
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Discussion Topic: Michigan State Open
William Danforth added to this discussion on November 17, 2009
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Josh:
You said "I can't see Ohio U getting seven to NCAA's because they probably don't have seven top 30 kids (that's what it takes to make the tournament). It's nothing to do with the MAC/Big10, etc inequity. Remember the system change."
Now it's only takes a great MAC tourney to qualify under the new system. The MAC is allocated so many slots per weight class based on MAC wrestlers individual performances throughout the year. Those entries into the NCAA championships are then won or lost at the MAC tourney. A wrestler with a losing record ranked 65th can qualify if they finish high enough at the MAC to qualify for one of the given slots at his weight class.
The at large bids which are given out after the conference tournaments are the ones handed out to "quality" wrestlers (Gold/Silver Standard) who had a poor showing at their conference tourny.
Josh you might of already understood this but it did not come across that way.
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Discussion Topic: Michigan State Open
Kevin Schlosser added to this discussion on November 17, 2009
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Josh
I don't see OU getting seven out either. I said they have the potential to get 2-4 out of the 7 weights I listed if they perform well at the MAC and continue to progress throughout the season. (133, 141, 157, 174, 184, 197, 285) Considering they didn't send anyone last year two would be a success and four would be outstanding.
Going back to look at the MAC last year they sent 21 to St. Louis. (125-2; 133-3, 141-2, 149-2, 157-1, 165-1, 174-2, 184-3, 197-3, 285-2) Giving it a second thought 1-3 is probably more realistic if they have the same numbers as last season because I see the majority of the seven weights I listed as 3-4 place finishers as opposed to finalists.
In terms of qualifying a spot I don't think Ohio has a top twenty wrestler in their projected lineup but I think that Keyes, Lindsay, Tucker, Ison, Purdue, Schuth, and Hartshorn all have the potential to be 25-30 type guys. With that said they need to stay healthy, qualify a spot, and then wrestle well at the MACs. If they don't place high enough, they need the resume to get an at large invitation.
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Discussion Topic: Michigan State Open
Josh Lowe added to this discussion on November 18, 2009
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Kevin/Bill:
The way I read Kevin's original statement was that Ohio U would be able to qualify more kids if it came out of a conference other than the MAC.
Therefore, I made an assumption that there was some confusion out there about the qualification system (i.e. we were in the "old" system where the MAC had some weight classes where it got royally screwed - namely 149 when it had Percival, Bake, Thompson, and Grimes; you had a Midlands finalist in Grimes with minimal chance of going to the tournament).
My point about top 30 being what it takes to make the NCAA tournament was (1) kids in that range are used to determine the qualification spots out of a conference (2) kids in that range tend to get the at-large's if they don't qualify through the conference tournament.
I apologize if I came across as uninformed about the current NCAA qualifier system - at least in the broad sense. Obviously Ohio could step up at the MAC tournament and qualify way above expectation (the same with any program at any conference tournament).
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Discussion Topic: Michigan State Open
Luke Moore added to this discussion on November 18, 2009
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Healthy is the key word for the Bobcats. At the MAC tourney last year, they were without 3 of their starters who would have had a real good shot at qualifying. I think that Greenlee is taking the right approach so far this season. He has sat a couple of his more injury prone upper classmen in the open to keep them fresh and healthy. I absolutely think Ison can be a top 15-20 guy. As far as the others, who knows. Hartshorn seems to be improving every week and Lindsey, Tucker, Schuth and Purdue have all registered big wins in the past and are capable of great performances.
A guy to not forget about is Weinkam at 165. He had back surgery in the off season but is making his way back. He was a guy that could have been a qualifier last year, and should be back for the dual season.
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Discussion Topic: Michigan State Open
Pat Costilow added to this discussion on November 18, 2009
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Weinkam is a stud- good for Lang to train with.
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