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Discussion Topic: Life Champions... tOSU
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on October 22, 2009
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"There's nothing wrong with being critical of Ohio State, I do it all the time. But as usual Gary, much like your comparision of David Taylor to Terrel Owens and your questions about where LeBron James' charity donations actually come from, you find a way to take something 100% positive and spin in a negitive light.
Whether you like Ohio State wrestling or not, this is a good thing."
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Sure it is. Now back to my question, does anyone really believe they are the only program who cares? That they are the only one who have some sort of recruiting advantage because of it?"
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The answer to both your questions is no. You see how that works? you asked a question and I answered it. Could you answer a question for me? Why did you feel the need to look at it from that point of view? It's not about defending Ohio State (I'm certainly not a fan). It's about calling you out for your constant negitive attitude toward positive things.
In the last few months you have taken a negitive stance on David Taylor, Cael Sanderson, LeBron James, teachers (who switch Districts) and people under 50. You've even found a way to make charity suspect.
Now, when a video pops up showing a wrestling program doing something positive for its wrestlers and its community, your comment is, "they are not the only school or wrestling team who cares about what becomes of their athletes after wrestling". Again, my question to you is why?
And while your answering that, could you finally answer my question from our last discussion: When was this by gone era that you lived in where things were so different? You know, when integrity and honesty were so much more prevalent?"
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Simple answer, because there is usually (always?) at least two points of view to most anything.
All I can recall saying about Taylor is that he is too young to have a "documentary" about him. Just hasn't done enough in life yet. My guess is that is just a generational difference between us.
Sanderson clearly was thinking only of himself and not his ISU recruits when he bolted mid-contract. I stand by that, and others have agreed.
As far as James, do we know what comes out of his pocket and what is done on his behalf. I don't, I doubt that you do either, but I think that is a fair question before even more praise is heaped on him for what he hasn't accomplished yet.
Refresh me on the teachers things. I honestly don't recall why I might or might not have said.
People under 50 are fine. Now under 30, that is a different story. :)
Why are they not the only one, or why did I ask that. Probably because you mention it as a factor in recruiting, and I am not all that sure it is since I do happen to believe that others have same/similar things going on so in that regard it might be a wash.
Uhhh, that era (and yes there were exceptions) was certainly in the 60s, 70s, and perhaps 80s. It seemed to get a bit muddy after that.
There, now how was all that?
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Discussion Topic: Life Champions... tOSU
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on October 22, 2009
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Gary...I totally agree that there are usually more than one point of view most things. But your "point of view" on this particular topic is, "Yeah that's swell, but other people do it too". That's what you're going with? really? My question, which you have not answered yet, is why?
Why do you look at a program doing a good thing and choose to point out that others do the same?
Why do you see someone is getting credit for giving to charity and choose to point out that we have no proof the money actually came from their pocket?
Why do you watch a video about a 18-year-old who, by all accounts, has done everything right and choose to point out how he hasn't done enough to merit the video and say that this kind of praise leads to Terrel Owens type athletes?
Why do you look for the dark lining in every story? That's the question.
As far as your assertion that the thirty years between 1960 and 1990 were somehow full of integrity, you're just wrong. The assassination of John F. Kennedy? 1963. RFK? June 5, 1968. MLK Jr.? April 4, 1968. When did the Vietnam War start, '59? When did the U.S. involvement and troops come into play, mid-60s to mid-70s? Richard Nixon's resignation? 1974. Iran–Contra? 1986. Pete Rose's betting on baseball? Mid-80s. These are not "exceptions", this is the way things were. It's the way they are. There were no good old days.
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Discussion Topic: Life Champions... tOSU
Erik Nell added to this discussion on October 23, 2009
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Kent State, Segregation, Ronald Reagan shooting, The cold war to name some more.
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Discussion Topic: Life Champions... tOSU
Rex Holman added to this discussion on October 23, 2009
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I wanted to point out that perspectives are a function of experience, perception and intepretation, which is anywhere on the subjective to objective sliding scale. Culture, disposition, beliefs,emotions, and language color perception and interpretation.
Typically, perspective is framed as some type of -ism. i.e Optimism, negativism, cynicism, relativism, objectivism.
The question changes and is not one of right or wrong but what shade of gray is your pair of glasses.
While you can objectively evaluate an issue and rationally associate it to right or wrong, this typically is of no value to a person with deeply embedded beliefs.
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Discussion Topic: Life Champions... tOSU
Brian Nicola added to this discussion on October 23, 2009
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The "Philosophical Hammer" strikes again.
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Discussion Topic: Life Champions... tOSU
Roe Fox added to this discussion on October 23, 2009
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Quote from Brian Nicola's post:
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"The "Philosophical Hammer" strikes again."
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Ah, yes, the id and the chi point of view.
I wistfully want the '50s. Didn't live them but they sure sounded good according to my parents. Hand shake deals, low crime, kids in school to learn, fresh off of kicking Nazi tail, full employment, great cars, Cuba as a vacation spot. No decade is perfect but I think this is a lot of what Gary means.
The disagreement I have with Gary's position in this discussion is his comment that there is always two points of view. He often (not always)doesn't seem to recognize or give credence to another's view if different than his.
I notice one similarity to the decline of polite society through the years: lawyers. And I practice law. I need new collegues.
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Discussion Topic: Life Champions... tOSU
Leo Zimmer added to this discussion on October 23, 2009
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Words have meaning. Any time a statement begins with a quasi apology such as "Not at all to diminish what Ohio State does, but..." you can be sure that the speaker (poster) is fully aware that what follows is likely to offend some people. Gary feeds off this... not unlike the child that throws rocks at the bee hive just to watch the angry bees buzz around.
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Discussion Topic: Life Champions... tOSU
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on October 24, 2009
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Roe: Your description sounds great. Unfortunately it leaves out widespread racism, anti-semitism, and the treatment of women as second class citizens. Not to mention that gay people remained in the closet if they knew what was good for them. Everyone knew their roles during the 1950's but some weren't happy with them.
No era is perfect.
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Discussion Topic: Life Champions... tOSU
Roe Fox added to this discussion on October 24, 2009
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"Roe: Your description sounds great. Unfortunately it leaves out widespread racism, anti-semitism, and the treatment of women as second class citizens. Not to mention that gay people remained in the closet if they knew what was good for them. Everyone knew their roles during the 1950's but some weren't happy with them.
No era is perfect."
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Hence: "No decade is perfect but . ." Also, much of what you complain of is more individual or regional than national.
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Discussion Topic: Life Champions... tOSU
Brian Nicola added to this discussion on October 24, 2009
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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"
Hence: "No decade is perfect but . ." Also, much of what you complain of is more individual or regional than national."
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/\ Do you really think that?
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Discussion Topic: Life Champions... tOSU
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on October 24, 2009
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Brian...I was thinking the same thing, racism and sexism NOT national problems in the 1950s? Really?
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Discussion Topic: Life Champions... tOSU
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on October 25, 2009
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Roe: I gave you a somewhat knee-jerk liberal response to your comment. Let me elucidate a bit. Coming out of the great depression and WW2, the 1950's were a marvelous time in America. The country was asserting itself as the leading power in the world economically, militarily, and dare I say morally? Certainly we were the undisputed leader of the world--the nation to which most other people looked (both in free countries and those suffering under repressive regimes). And we were led by a respectable and decent man--Dwight D. Eisenhower. I think those things are important to mention as well.
Sadly, we got caught up in the cold war and made a lot of bad decisions.
Ultimately, we ended up in Vietnam--the most divisive conflict in our history besides the Civil War. Unlike Iraq and Afghanistan, our young men were dragged into a terrible conflict from which they had no option but to serve. Many people are willing to serve their country. Most want it to be for a just cause.
Final thought: The film, "Across the Universe", which was a tribute to the music of the Beatles, did a better job than any I've ever seen of explaining why the Vietnam war was so divisive. (Plus, the interpretations of the music are pure genius IMO). Everyone should see it.
I hope my ramblings are forgiveable. As to the social issues I brought up, yeah...those were the undercurrent of what was otherwise the golden decade of the 20th century in America.
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Discussion Topic: Life Champions... tOSU
Roe Fox added to this discussion on October 25, 2009
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Quote from Brian Nicola's post:
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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Hence: "No decade is perfect but . ." Also, much of what you complain of is more individual or regional than national."
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/\ Do you really think that?"
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Yes. History has shown that to be true. Of course, you can point to certain examples to try to disprove an absolute but I certainly didn't phrase it in terms of an absolute and don't mean it that way.
If the majoirty of this Country didn't support individual freedom over racism I doubt we would have this country. The Civil War, among other events, has shown us that. Now, if you want to quibble about whether some individuals and groups, particularly in the South, were racist during the 50s (and even now), I won't because they were (are).
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Discussion Topic: Life Champions... tOSU
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on October 26, 2009
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What happened to the thread about OSU and life champions? Seems Gary's been successful.
The program that OSU and others are involved in is fantastic -- and should be replicated by all universities.
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Discussion Topic: Life Champions... tOSU
Roe Fox added to this discussion on October 26, 2009
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Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
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"What happened to the thread about OSU and life champions? Seems Gary's been successful.
The program that OSU and others are involved in is fantastic -- and should be replicated by all universities."
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I agree wholeheartedly and apologize for being baited into spiraling deeper into an off-topic subject.
Ryan has a great life story himself which is why I believe what he is doing with the Life Champions effort is compelling and genuine.
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