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Discussion Topic: NFHS Proposed Weight Classes
Christopher Sommers added to this discussion on August 17, 2009
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The National Federation of State High School Associations has put together 3 options for new weight classes in 2010-2011. The current weight classes have existed since 1995.
Here is a link to the press release:
http://ohiowrestling.net/2009/8/nfhs_proposed_weight_classes.pdf
I got this off of yappi and I was wondering which one you guys would pick. I say stick with what's working now since it's fine. That's the one I would pick. If I had to pick a different one, I would go with Plan B. I see Plan A being too much of a problem. When it comes to time to give weight allowances, you will get some kids getting really undersized at the lighter weights.
So which one would you guys pick to use?
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Discussion Topic: NFHS Proposed Weight Classes
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on August 17, 2009
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I posted on another site that I don't mind 'B'. I really don't mind what we have now, but whatever.
I think that when the change occurs, it needs to be for legit reasons.
Base it off the bell curve with a standard deviation that matches the curve. It makes just as much sense to add a 300 pound weight class as it does a 90 pound weight class. Every school has a handful of both but those two weight are so far on the ends of the extreme that a change in that manner is pointless.
However, from what I see in the proposed changes is a little study and research. The next step is getting coaches' input!!!
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Discussion Topic: NFHS Proposed Weight Classes
Christopher Henderson added to this discussion on August 18, 2009
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I like plan B but without the 220 weight class. Just make the second highest 200. Schools tend to forfeit 103 and 215 a lot, so bumping up the bottom weight and getting rid of 215 would help make for more competitive dual meets. Tournament wouldn't take quite as long with only 13 weight classes either. Let's hope the wrestling authorities look at our suggestions and help make wrestling fun to watch and attend.
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Discussion Topic: NFHS Proposed Weight Classes
Steve Lester added to this discussion on August 18, 2009
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On Mike Trivisanno's annual wrestling round table show a couple of year's back, Maple Heights coach Jamie Milkovich surprisingly advocated for high schools to field 11 weight classes. He may be singular with that position but who knows.
Some issues:
1. It appears that the majority opinion is that reducing the number of weight classes would hurt the sport.
2. There are diverse opinions about how changing the weight classes might help or hurt the sport:
a. Raising the limits may reduce weight cutting.
b. Raising the limits may discourage ninth graders.
c. ** Freshman are not owed varsity spots, and can apply their skills on freshman or junior varsity squads (I guess) where lower weights limits could be established.
d. Great freshman, with plenty of successful mat time at the schoolboy level, should be afforded the opportunity to wrestle varsity and raising weights would hurt that effort.
e. Forfeits abound at the lower weights due to negligence of coaches.
f. Forfeits abounding at the lower weights are a demographic issue and are no one's fault.
Those are some of the issues that I have seen argued.
** = OHSAA already has different weight class ranges (lower) for competition involving all-freshman squads, for whatever programs have them.
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Discussion Topic: NFHS Proposed Weight Classes
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on August 18, 2009
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There's no point in changing the weight classes unless you eliminate a couple of them. Forfeits are epidemic these days and that's one of the reasons no one wants to wrestle dual meets. The reason weight classes were changed in the late 1980's was because a study showed that kids weights are like a bell curve--most are in the middle with much fewer at the extremes. Then, several states added the 215 pound weight class due to fears of lawsuits. The concern was that a 190 pound 285 would get badly injured against a 275 pound opponent. The addition of 215 has been an interesting experiment but has added extra upperwts for which there was no statistical justification.
I don't see the point in changing from the current wts unless it's to slice off a couple. Otherwise, leave it be unless statistical evidence exists to suggest a change is necessary.
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Discussion Topic: NFHS Proposed Weight Classes
Matt Schein added to this discussion on August 18, 2009
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I agree with Hank, this issue comes up all the time, yet nothing ever happens. Also, a lot of teams are moving away from duels because a tri is the same amount of points. Coaches would rather get an extra match for the same amount of points.
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Discussion Topic: NFHS Proposed Weight Classes
Anthony Windsor II added to this discussion on August 18, 2009
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Being a wrestler myself I say that I honestly don't find a problem with the current weight classes and personally, I don't think that it needs to be changed...
But if I did have to pick one; being a lightweight myself, I would probably pick C. When I was a freshman I was already under 103 lbs. and as a sophomore I had a tough time because I was over 103 (and never had to cut weight before) but couldn't go up a weight class because it was too high of a jump. Since there isn't too many wrestlers in the 103 weight class anymore, moving it up to 106 would benefit not only the wrestlers at the lighter weights that are far from 103 but too light to be very competitive at 112, but also the schools trying to fill those weight classes.
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Discussion Topic: NFHS Proposed Weight Classes
Dan Cosimi added to this discussion on August 19, 2009
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This is outside-of-the-box thinking and I don't know how much support these ideas would ever get, but here are some of my thoughts.
1. Eliminate weight classes from dual meets. Pair the best athletes against each other. Have the star football player from Columbus Central, A.J. Laurinaitis, who is 185 pounds, face the star track athlete from Jamaica North, Jesse Bolt, who is 200 pounds. Pitch it more like an MMA event. (I think we have a lot to learn from the way they market their sport.) It would certainly be a way to attract a lot of interest.
2. Eliminate the 20-point system. I don't see why it is a good thing at all.
3. Allow teams to enter as many individuals as they want into the sectional tournament until a weight class is filled (with sixteen entrants). So, say you have a sectional with twelve teams. Instead of having four byes, let four junior varsity kids have a chance at the big show. How would we determine which teams get to enter their wrestler? Random draw from the teams that have a wrestler eligible to wrestle there. Would this mess up the team scores? Somewhat, yes. The team would only have one point-scorer per weight class, however, the non-point scorer could certainly take points away from an opposing scorer. But that's competition.
4. Follow the central district's lead and seed teams within all district tournaments to balance out the sectionals. This sounds like common sense to me. And, yes, it will help some teams (like the ones at the brutal Medina sectional in Division 1 or the Northwestern sectional in Division 3) and would hurt other teams - like my own alma mater - but it would level the playing field considerably and that's more important for our sport as a whole.
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Discussion Topic: NFHS Proposed Weight Classes
Matt Schein added to this discussion on August 20, 2009
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totally agree, get rid of the 20 point system. also i think i like your idea of letting JV kids fill lines at the sectional tournaments
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Discussion Topic: NFHS Proposed Weight Classes
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on September 18, 2009
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Any recent news on the National Federation's decision?
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Discussion Topic: NFHS Proposed Weight Classes
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on September 18, 2009
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Dan -- your point #1 is a moot point now. I went to watch a former wrestler of mine fight in his first MMA action. His opponent didn't show and was told, because of liablilty, he couldn't bump up from his weight (185) to a higher weight class, even though the guy only weighed 192 (his opponent didn't make weight). Wrestling has flexibility to bump up a wrestler 1 weight class. That isn't an option in MMA.
Wreslting popularity will grow in towns with more dual meets. I would like to be able to do what small towns in MN does -- combine towns to make a team. This makes a much better environment for dual meets. For example, my school, Mechancisburg, could join with Triad so instead of having two teams that each have less that 15 kids on their team, there is a chance for a full line-up. Most schools have maybe two dual meets per year at their school. It's tough to get a town to support the program that way. In some cases, it's also tough to have a town come to a dual meet that has maybe 7 matchups because of the size of the teams involved.
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Discussion Topic: NFHS Proposed Weight Classes
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on September 18, 2009
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Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
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"Dan -- your point #1 is a moot point now. I went to watch a former wrestler of mine fight in his first MMA action. His opponent didn't show and was told, because of liablilty, he couldn't bump up from his weight (185) to a higher weight class, even though the guy only weighed 192 (his opponent didn't make weight). Wrestling has flexibility to bump up a wrestler 1 weight class. That isn't an option in MMA.
Wreslting popularity will grow in towns with more dual meets. I would like to be able to do what small towns in MN does -- combine towns to make a team. This makes a much better environment for dual meets. For example, my school, Mechancisburg, could join with Triad so instead of having two teams that each have less that 15 kids on their team, there is a chance for a full line-up. Most schools have maybe two dual meets per year at their school. It's tough to get a town to support the program that way. In some cases, it's also tough to have a town come to a dual meet that has maybe 7 matchups because of the size of the teams involved."
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Brady, Jaime Milkovich has been quoted as saying much the same thing. Dual meets used to be packed, now it is tough to get any kind of following to a tournament where you sit there for 8-10 hours just to see "your guys" wrestle perhaps every 45-60 minutes at best.
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Discussion Topic: NFHS Proposed Weight Classes
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on September 21, 2009
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Wrestling coaches need to be creative to sell their sport to their communities. I have dual meets where the pee-wee program, jr high and then high school wrestle, in succession, their duals. It's been pretty successful.
I'm working to have a during school dual meet -- that is tougher to pull off.
I've also stolen ISU's idea and I've also began working with the AD to set up a "Beauty and the Beast" night where a wrestling dual is combined with a girls basketball game.
Anybody else have any unique ideas for dual meets that I could steal?
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Discussion Topic: NFHS Proposed Weight Classes
John Fayette added to this discussion on September 21, 2009
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Beavercreek HS (Coach Gary Wise) has a pre season (scrimmage) dual meet at the school, during school. The whole student body is there and is a great event. One of the best promotions I have seen in terms of kids/people seeing what the sport is about. I'm sure it makes the wrestlers excited to have the stands packed as well.
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Discussion Topic: NFHS Proposed Weight Classes
Don Stocum added to this discussion on September 21, 2009
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Quote from Mark Niemann's post:
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"I posted on another site that I don't mind 'B'. I really don't mind what we have now, but whatever.
I think that when the change occurs, it needs to be for legit reasons.
Base it off the bell curve with a standard deviation that matches the curve. It makes just as much sense to add a 300 pound weight class as it does a 90 pound weight class. Every school has a handful of both but those two weight are so far on the ends of the extreme that a change in that manner is pointless.
However, from what I see in the proposed changes is a little study and research. The next step is getting coaches' input!!!"
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Why don't they just use college weight classes and add a lower class. So it would be like this:
115
125
133
141
149
157
165
174
184
197
285
This is a couple weight classes less but it will make it easier to fill the spots and therefore make the sport much more competitive.
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