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Discussion Topic: Them's Fightin' Words
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on June 5, 2009
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My perspective is that of a fan. If you want college wrestling to prosper in Ohio, you need this match. Two years ago, I stood in line at Kent to get a ticket. There were over 2000 fans in attendance. How many college duals in Ohio can attract this type of crowd? Zero. That's the reason you have the dual. It's a draw.
Kent is not going to win recruits away from Ohio State. The Buckeyes will always have the cache of being the most prominent program in the state and in the Big Ten. The very top kids in Ohio are not going to see the results of this dual and decide where to go. If they have the grades and the talent, it's going to be Ohio State nearly every time. Ohio State is battling Penn State, Iowa and Oklahoma State for recruits. Kent is going to grab kids a notch below (usually).
Andrassy probably doesn't help his cause by speaking out so adamantly. After the last Kent/Buckeye dual, he spoke out about how Cody Gardner was someone that could be broken with pressure. That's not a comment you make aloud--even if it's true. Maybe those "shoot from the foot" type comments have ticked off Ryan. Even so...on balance this dual is good for Ohio college wrestling fans. That's the reason you have it.
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Discussion Topic: Them's Fightin' Words
Rex Holman added to this discussion on June 5, 2009
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Hank-
I would have to disagree with you on Kent being unable to recruit an Ohio kid away from OSU.
Kent has legitimized their status as an up and comer by having two AAs. It has an improving program.
The whole selling point would be do you want to be a big fish in a big pond or a big fish in a small pond. Also, OSU may want a kid but there may be a stud at the weight (Pucillo and Kilgore). So, the wrestler may opt to start right away at their given weight rather than be 2nd team or at another weight class.
Granted a large percentage of young wrestlers first choice will be OSU but if enough other variables are weighted in favor of another option, then that wrestler will choose likewise.
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Discussion Topic: Them's Fightin' Words
Rex Holman added to this discussion on June 5, 2009
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Also, It has been my experience that you go out of your way to accomodate people that are good to you in terms of being complementary and positive. These relationships tend to be reciprocal in nature.
I have seen Coach Andrassy make light of recruiting, and talk about scheduling in terms unflattering towards the Buckeyes which could be viewed as disrespectful.
JMHO
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Discussion Topic: Them's Fightin' Words
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on June 5, 2009
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Rex: I agree with your second post alot. Coach Andrassy has done himself no favors with his inability to filter what comes out of his mouth. You don't say negative things about another team's kid or make public comments constantly about how you remind your guys that Ohio State didn't want them. You also have to be careful what you say about another team during the recruiting process.
As a fan, however, it strikes me that both coaches need to make this match happen. You just don't get many opportunities to get a large crowd at an Ohio college dual. Without home meets against Iowa and Michigan, Ohio State's attendance dropped this season. Kent only draws well if CMU comes to town. The overriding concern to me is not the petty b-llshit of who said what. It's about the two best squads in Ohio wrestling a dual in front of a large crowd. That should be the overriding consideration. If Ryan wants to tell Andrassy to shut up, then he should do it. But that shouldn't preclude this match from taking place.
Just my opinion.
Mike R: I agree with you about Sponseller.
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Discussion Topic: Them's Fightin' Words
Zebulin Miller added to this discussion on June 5, 2009
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Ohio State gains nothing from the dual, similiar to U of M dualing CMU. If you win you were supposed to, if you wrestle close then you underperformed, if you lose, it sets your program back with some kids and alum. I Don't blame Tom Ryan. Do I want it to happen? More than anything! Will it? No. Regardless of what I ask Andrassy in any interview he will say what he wants. He is abrasive to some people and that is just Jim. If you wrestle for him, you know he will lay in traffic for you if you are doing what he wants. That being said, the dual will not happen. The filter is not always on with Jim, but that is what makes him unique. I think a little bad feelings is not always negative, it drives ultra competetive people like Tom Ryan to win, and win big. Both guys are all about wrestling in Ohio and I hope they both rethink their actions in relation to this dual.
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Discussion Topic: Them's Fightin' Words
Rex Holman added to this discussion on June 6, 2009
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Well said Zeb
I wish I was a teacher right now and had the next three months for personal growth
Hank-
I really would like to see this dual happen. This past season's dual showcased a lot of very good wrestling. I love to see technically sound wrestling backed with emotion. This dual had/has a lot of it.
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Discussion Topic: Them's Fightin' Words
J.P. Barner added to this discussion on June 6, 2009
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Maybe we are jumping to conclusions here - perhaps they just couldn't schedule the match at an opportune time for both programs?
Ryan probably targets his team to peak for selected events - like Nat'l Duals, Vegas, etc. and doesn't want too difficult - which this match may figure to be - too close to these types of matches? Just a thought...
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Discussion Topic: Them's Fightin' Words
Ryan Dickson added to this discussion on June 8, 2009
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I think the best thing for the state of Ohio wrestling is to have a true "Ohio Cup"
Have a two day dual tournament seeded, with all participating wrestling schools in Ohio.This would crown one "true Ohio Champion" The event could travel between universities as the Big Ten tourney does. Have it early in the season say mid-November that way you could draw max fans without getting into too much HS schedules. If that wouldn't gain interest and excitement for wrestling in our state nothing would!
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Discussion Topic: Them's Fightin' Words
Roe Fox added to this discussion on June 8, 2009
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To add a little more interest to the discussion, it appears Michigan has the stones to wrestle KSU at KSU. Now, its pretty clear Michigan recruits some of their better wrestlers from Ohio, they clearly don't curently have anywhere near the talent of OSU, and they are willing to make the trip.
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Discussion Topic: Them's Fightin' Words
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on June 8, 2009
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Yes , but the better question is, is Michigan willing to wrestle Central Michigan? that is a much more reasonable comarison to the Ohio State Kent situation.
I believe I read something over on TheMat that Michigan, much like Ohio State and Kent, had cancelled that dual for next year.
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Discussion Topic: Them's Fightin' Words
Roe Fox added to this discussion on June 9, 2009
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"Yes , but the better question is, is Michigan willing to wrestle Central Michigan? that is a much more reasonable comarison to the Ohio State Kent situation.
I believe I read something over on TheMat that Michigan, much like Ohio State and Kent, had cancelled that dual for next year."
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Your suggestion it isn't apples to apples. KSU has never challenged TOSU for Number 1 in the state; many believe that CMU hasn't just had the best results results recently but is actually the better program. No one would say that about KSU.
And it looks like from the thread you refer to that a lot of Michigan people are also unhappy with that turn of events.
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Discussion Topic: Them's Fightin' Words
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on June 9, 2009
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Just like Ohio people are upset about the events here with tOSU and Kent. But the fact that they are upset doesn't mean that they know what's right for the program and the Head Coach doesn't. Coach Ryan's responsibility is to do what's best for Ohio State wrestling, not to do what's best for the Ohio wrestling community. Sometimes those two things are the same, but not always. Ryan is making the right call. Kent State doesn't have to win the dual to win the chess match. Ohio State wins by not wrestling this dual.
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Discussion Topic: Them's Fightin' Words
Roe Fox added to this discussion on June 9, 2009
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One thing I learned from watching you and Gary go at it is that you must have the last say. There you are. I'll err on the side of wanting the competition.
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Discussion Topic: Them's Fightin' Words
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on June 9, 2009
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"Just like Ohio people are upset about the events here with tOSU and Kent. But the fact that they are upset doesn't mean that they know what's right for the program and the Head Coach doesn't. Coach Ryan's responsibility is to do what's best for Ohio State wrestling, not to do what's best for the Ohio wrestling community. Sometimes those two things are the same, but not always. Ryan is making the right call. Kent State doesn't have to win the dual to win the chess match. Ohio State wins by not wrestling this dual."
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You win by not competing??????
Interesting. Wrong, but interesting. The best you might say is they don't lose, but they surely don't win anything either.
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Discussion Topic: Them's Fightin' Words
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on June 9, 2009
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"You win by not competing??????
Interesting. Wrong, but interesting. The best you might say is they don't lose, but they surely don't win anything either."
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Not to confirm Mr. Fox's assertion about getting the last word, but I think whether it is a blowout for Ohio State or a close win or an upset win for Kent, Kent wins and Ohio State loses because in the end, regardless of the outcome of the dual, it helps Kent's recruiting to say that they wrestle Ohio State every year. And if Kent's recruiting is helped, then at least on some level Ohio State's is hurt.
Roe...You are correct about Kent and CMU being on different levels and that Central Michigan is arguably the best wrestling school in the state of Michigan (and certainly closer to Michigan then Kent is to tOSU). Thus making my example not apples to apples.
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