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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Dom Cribari added to this discussion on April 21, 2009
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How about the College futures of Taylor and Clark?
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Kevin Petrella added to this discussion on April 21, 2009
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Man, with the amount of people who are feeling this shady and angry about Cael leaving, I wonder how his brother feels...
...I'm sure he's upset, but maybe not as upset as some people on here are or even those who were sending Mr. Sanderson hate mail
If he can deal with it, so should everyone else.
Cael Sanderson may leave whenever he wants. This shouldn't even be an issue unless he leaves during the middle of competition (as we know college wrestling is a year long thing).
Teachers sign multiple year deals. This doesn't mean they have to be there the entire time. It is a different scenario when a teacher leaves mid year.
The contract is meant for the employee, not the employer.
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Last edited by Kevin Petrella on April 22, 2009; edited 1 time in total
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on April 22, 2009
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Quote from Brady Hiatt's post:
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"Almost every teacher, when they decide to take a job at another school, leave while under contract. Mid-school year? Very few.
Gary, you said that Taylor signed with Iowa State, not Cael. So, therefore, Sanderson didn't sell himself to any of the recruits, he sold the school. Can't have it both ways."
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I can if it is correct. He sold himself, should have been selling the school as well, and Taylor did sign with ISU.
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on April 22, 2009
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"What teachers leave while under contract? Elementary and Secondary? How many leave mid-school year?"
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Elementary, Intermediate, Middle school, High School, they all do it. If you go from one District to another, odds are you're breaking contract. It happens every year in every District.
Is it also the case that all teachers who switch jobs lack honor and integrity? Why was the question posed about leaving mid-school year? Sanderson left after the season was over.
Let's say you don't have an axe to grind regarding Sanderson. You have to admit you a problem with him on a personal level even though you don't know him on a personal level and don't know anything about the circumstances surrounding his departure from Iowa State.
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"I would hope every current wrestler and recruit did. Nothing special about that gesture."
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When he does something that goes against you personal code, you blast him for six pages of comments. When he does something you agree with you minimize it. Some people just don't like certain coaches. I'm not a big fan of Romano (formally of Kent State). Clearly you're just not a Cael Sanderson guy and he can do no right in you eyes."
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Teaching contracts expire at the end of each school year. AGAIN, who leaves mid-year? Coaches often have multi-year contracts, teachers never do. Poor, poor analogy. :(
I have always said Sanderson is just one of many who do this, but he happens to be the subject here. Want to talk about Saban or Calipari?
I just have problems with the current trend of praising people for doing what they are suppose to do. Sure they could not do those things, but to do the expected is just that, expected.
Sure he can do right, he was a helluva wrestler. I am just not into here-worshipping and excusing what he does now because he was a great wrestler. Not like he save any lives, he was just a wrestler.
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on April 22, 2009
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Quote from Roe Fox's post:
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"I think we are getting a little far afield with the teacher comparisons, although I appreciate the staying power you guys have.
Teachers don't usually sign contracts, per se (unless you are talking about supplemental contract for extracurriculars). They are part of a bargaining unit that negotiates their terms and conditions of employment. If they are there, then they operate unde that contract; if they leave, they operate under the new one.
If you are talking about supplemental contracts I haven't seen too many notable schools have coaches leave in the middle of a season.
Gary: I read that Brands was "honest" wiuth his wrestlers about possibly leaving for Iowa but also told them they would be released without coordinating it with the school first."
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Roe, they sign contracts at our schools. Baseball players sign contracts, and they are part of a bargaining unit too.
But he didn't leave for Iowa, and obviously he had NO authority to grant them releases or say they would be. Shame on him is that is true.
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on April 22, 2009
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Quote from Dom Cribari's post:
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"How about the College futures of Taylor and Clark?"
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Taylor currently has a college.
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on April 22, 2009
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Quote from Kevin Petrella's post:
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"Man, with the amount of people who are feeling this shady and angry about Cael leaving, I wonder how his brother feels...
...I'm sure he's upset, but maybe not as upset as some people on here are or even those who were sending Mr. Sanderson hate mail
Cael Sanderson may leave whenever he wants. This shouldn't even be an issue unless he leaves during the middle of competition (as we know college wrestling is a year long thing).
Teachers sign multiple year deals. This doesn't mean they have to be there the entire time. It is a different scenario when a teacher leaves mid year.
The contract is meant for the employee, not the employer."
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He can leave whenever he wants??????????? How old are you?
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on April 22, 2009
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"
Teaching contracts expire at the end of each school year. AGAIN, who leaves mid-year? Coaches often have multi-year contracts, teachers never do. Poor, poor analogy. :("
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My teaching "contract" expires the same time my 3 year license expires (I am in this process currently) and it renews when I renew my liscense. I will be getting my 5 year liscense so I'll have a 5 year "contract" with the school. Supplemental contracts expire at the end of every year and I must sign a new contract every spring/fall.
Back to the thread topic. Nobody on here would ever guess that Taylor or Clark wouldn't have very successful college careers, but very few are absolute sure things. Most would have thought that C.P. would have been more than just a single time AA or that the kid that Jaggers beat in this years finals (highest placing was 7th in PA) would have been a finalist but there are many variables in college (freedom, girls, studies, etc.) that don't make recruiting a perfect science.
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
John Flanigan added to this discussion on April 22, 2009
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"John: Intriguing point. Perhaps, he wanted to change the angle of attack?"
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I have a lucid moment every now and then. I think the idea that Cael is fleeing ISU because of Iowa is silly based on his history as a competitor. Like I said, I believe this is actually a greater challenge, especially when you consider who he would have had returning next year.
As for Clark and Taylor, I hope they take some time and evaluate the situation to do what is best for them. With the way that ISU has handled the situation to date, I would think that they would release Taylor if he requested. There appears to be no point in punishing him by making him go to ISU if he really doesn't want to go there, but you never know.
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Kevin Petrella added to this discussion on April 22, 2009
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"
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Quote from Kevin Petrella's post:
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"Man, with the amount of people who are feeling this shady and angry about Cael leaving, I wonder how his brother feels...
...I'm sure he's upset, but maybe not as upset as some people on here are or even those who were sending Mr. Sanderson hate mail
Cael Sanderson may leave whenever he wants. This shouldn't even be an issue unless he leaves during the middle of competition (as we know college wrestling is a year long thing).
Teachers sign multiple year deals. This doesn't mean they have to be there the entire time. It is a different scenario when a teacher leaves mid year.
The contract is meant for the employee, not the employer."
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He can leave whenever he wants??????????? How old are you?"
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As long as it is not in the middle of the seasonal competition...yes
Why does it matter how old I am? That makes no difference.
Again, why are you worked up more than the athletic director at ISU?
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Scott Shaw added to this discussion on April 22, 2009
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Thank you for clearing that point up Brady. MOST of our teachers in my district are under 5 year CONTRACTS.
Roe, bargaining unit or not. I sign my contract as an individual. My union president doesn't sign it for me. My union negotiates terms of the CONTRACT and I can either sign it or move on my way. The teacher's union does not eliminate me from that decision making process.
Mr. Rodriguez, you hit it again with the mid-year analogy. Yes Gary, most if not all teachers leave in the summer after the school year ends and before the next one starts. They are still under contract with the first school however. So Cael's leaving during the off-season is the same as a teacher leaving in the summer. While teachers don't bring specific kids into a building, I have personally seen a lot of situations where teachers worked to put something in place (a tutoring program or simply a better way of doing certain things) and then they leave the school district. Should those teachers, because they did not become lifers at one district, be criticized and have their character questioned because they are no longer around to see their initiatives through the next 30 years? Not in my book. I take the opinion that they were leaving things better then they found them and even though that was hard for Cael Sanderson to do at Iowa State, I think that he has done that. Iowa State, not Oklahoma State, is now the force in the Big 12.
My point was, many professionals (doctors, accountants, teachers, etc.) are under CONTRACT and make moves that benefit them and their families. Sometimes it is for more money, better location, better opportunity, whatever the reason, people leave one job for a new one when they feel it is time to move.
As for Cyler Sanderson, which somebody brought up, Cael Sanderson has stated several times in the past few days that he spoke at length with his family during this process. I would think that meant his wife, his parents, and his brothers. Everything that I have seen and heard from and about Cael Sanderson and his family tells me that I don't think that he has ever made a MAJOR decision in his life without talking to his brothers first.
Back on topic, that family bond is probably part of the reason why kids like Taylor and Clark are attracted to follow Sanderson and I think that Clark follows him to PSU and Taylor does as well, even if it costs him a year.
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Brady Hiatt added to this discussion on April 22, 2009
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I have no first hand knowledge of this situation but if I was Taylor and really wanted to wrestle for Sanderson, if ISU didn't release me, I'd either transfer to PSU and sit out that year (spending my redshirt year) or I'd go to PSU as a part time student (athletic clock doesn't start till you are a full time student) for one year and then enroll the following year. Then he'd have 5 to complete the 4. That first year as a full time student you still can't receive athletic scholarship but you can get academic scholarships and other grants.
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Hank Kornblut added to this discussion on April 22, 2009
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John: I don't think it's silly to suggest that the presence of a powerhouse program in Iowa played a significant role in Cael's decision making. Remove the Iowa program from the state--or downgrade it to a mediocre squad--and it's difficult to imagine that Cael would have left ISU. What reason would there have been to leave? His teams were doing well and his recruiting was top notch. The presence of Iowa most certainly played a significant role in his thinking.
Where I went astray was to imply that Cael might have been afraid of Iowa. That's not the case. I think he enjoyed competing with them but not from within the state. He gets the top program in PA to run versus the second best program in Iowa. That's a good reason to make a switch.
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
John Flanigan added to this discussion on April 22, 2009
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Quote from Hank Kornblut's post:
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"John: I don't think it's silly to suggest that the presence of a powerhouse program in Iowa played a significant role in Cael's decision making. Remove the Iowa program from the state--or downgrade it to a mediocre squad--and it's difficult to imagine that Cael would have left ISU. What reason would there have been to leave? His teams were doing well and his recruiting was top notch. The presence of Iowa most certainly played a significant role in his thinking.
Where I went astray was to imply that Cael might have been afraid of Iowa. That's not the case. I think he enjoyed competing with them but not from within the state. He gets the top program in PA to run versus the second best program in Iowa. That's a good reason to make a switch."
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Here's my reasoning, Cael is a top notch competitor so I do not believe he would shy away from the in-state competition of Iowa or be worried about playing second fiddle. If Iowa were removed from the equation, I believe he still would have left because he embraces the competition. It is not like he is leaving a good conference to go to a weaker one, but leaving a good conference to go to a great one. His reason to leave could be the old adage, "To be the best, you have to beat the best."
Of course, without knowing him this is all speculation. For all we know, he could just likes PSU colors better than ISU:) Maybe he was confident that at ISU he would have surpassed Iowa, but that this opportunity to do it in duals, in the conference tourney and at Nationals was too good to pass up. When would he get the chance again?
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on April 22, 2009
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Quote from Kevin Petrella's post:
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"
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"
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Quote from Kevin Petrella's post:
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"Man, with the amount of people who are feeling this shady and angry about Cael leaving, I wonder how his brother feels...
...I'm sure he's upset, but maybe not as upset as some people on here are or even those who were sending Mr. Sanderson hate mail
Cael Sanderson may leave whenever he wants. This shouldn't even be an issue unless he leaves during the middle of competition (as we know college wrestling is a year long thing).
Teachers sign multiple year deals. This doesn't mean they have to be there the entire time. It is a different scenario when a teacher leaves mid year.
The contract is meant for the employee, not the employer."
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He can leave whenever he wants??????????? How old are you?"
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As long as it is not in the middle of the seasonal competition...yes
Why does it matter how old I am? That makes no difference.
Again, why are you worked up more than the athletic director at ISU?"
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I have found, and maybe I have been more fortunate than others, that with age comes maturity and wisdom. A contract is a CONTRACT.
He was put in a bad situation by a man serving his own interests. As I said before, what is he to do at this point? Keep a guy who doesn't want to be there? Fire him, prohibit him from going anywhere else, and pay him off? And you have NO idea how that AD really feels.
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