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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on April 19, 2009
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"I just don't get why anyone would be in a hurry to follow a guy that just left you, and what is the guarantee he doesn't do it again. "
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Even if you don't get it, you must see how clearly some athletes feel a strong tie to their coach and will leave one school to attend another to be with that coach. It happens in Basketball all the time, and the best wrestling example was Tom Brands and the Virginia Tech wrestlers.
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"Does anyone know if Sanderson broke a contract to leave Iowa State? Just want to see what kind of a man he really is."
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Let's say he had a couple more years on his Iowa State deal. What kind of man does that make him? Are you saying good men don't break contracts? I don't know Mr. Sanderson, maybe he is some sort of evil mastermind who is out to destroy David Taylor's life, but he has done nothing in the public realm (including seeking out this opportunity) that should make you question his character.
Many men in many fields switch jobs while under contract. Odds are, whoever takes the jobs that are open now at Illinois and Iowa State will be someone under contrct somewhere else. If they're not under contract, that means there not coaching. Why would you hire someone who's not currently coaching?"
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That is exactly what I am saying. Used to be that your word was your bond. Same with a handshake. Now guys, and I know he is not the only one, don't mind breaking legal agreements. Sad, very sad how far society is falling in so many ways.
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Tony Bradberry added to this discussion on April 19, 2009
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What I am saying is someones contract can be up at the end of this year and they may choose not to renew it and go to ISU or IU.
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on April 19, 2009
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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Quote from Tony Bradberry's post:
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"Thats not true a contract can be up at the end of this season, which would mean you are still coaching."
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Do you think that the person Illinois and iowa State hire will be someone who is not currectly under contract somewhere else?"
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Who knows? I don't understand why an employer would hire someone under contract. If the person would break their current contract, what is to stop them from breaking the new one with you. Clearly not any sense of loyalty, morality, or knowing right from wrong.
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on April 19, 2009
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What you mean to say is clearly not any sense of what you consider loyalty, your personal morality, or knowing right from wrong in your eyes.
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on April 19, 2009
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"What you mean to say is clearly not any sense of what you consider loyalty, your personal morality, or knowing right from wrong in your eyes."
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Grass is green, the sky is blue, and a contract is a contract. Nothing subjective about any of those.
Let me guess. You are under 50. Probably under 40.
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on April 19, 2009
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In the worlds of business, education, governement, sports and entertainment contracts are constantly broken/re-negotiated by good people. Fathers and Mothers, sons and daughters of good character who have lived good lives and who are simply trying to do what is best for themselves and their family.
I'm 37.
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Steve Lester added to this discussion on April 19, 2009
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"In the worlds of business, education, governement, sports and entertainment contracts are constantly broken/re-negotiated by good people. Fathers and Mothers, sons and daughters of good character who have lived good lives and who are simply trying to do what is best for themselves and their family.
I'm 37."
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Renotiated contracts are not the same thing as broken contracts. Breaking them often has consequences of some sort or to some extent. I guessing a fair amount of attorneys are involved in them.
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Stu Herman added to this discussion on April 19, 2009
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There is a liquidated damages provision (where Cael would pay Iowa State a monetary penalty for not continuing his term) in nearly EVERY coach's contract in every sport. He didn't break his contract, he used his ability to get out of his contract legally but probably at a penalty. Some contracts only kick the liquidated damages provision in if he were to go to say Iowa or within the Big 12 and I haven't seen his Iowa State contract to tell you.
Most times it is likely if he leaves after the first year he pays (just an example) $50,000, after the second year $40,000, after the third $30,000, etc. If Iowa State did not have one of these provisions for a high profile coach like Cael, it is their in-house counsel's fault. Look at what West Virginia got for Rich Rodriguez leaving, that is a perfect example of this provision in effect. Most of the time you don't hear about them but anyone can look at the contract of a coach at a state school by submitting a public records request and probably paying a small copying fee to the school.
That being said I really cannot believe that anyone would not leave their current job for 4 or 5 times their current salary. As fans of wrestling I would hope people understand how monumental this is for the sport. By Cael getting such a record deal he is likely one of, if not THE, highest paid coach in a non-revenue sport. In fact, he is as high or higher than probably 60 percent of Division 1 football coaches. This may start the "arms race" in wrestling that everyone has been waiting for where revenue and resources are finally put into programs. Not to mention that paying the best to stick around and coach will keep them in the sport and not jumping ship to MMA. I hope that more schools take the "throw a ton of money at a big name" approach and show that they ACTUALLY care about wrestling and the success of their program.
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Mark Niemann added to this discussion on April 19, 2009
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Does anybody see this as a BigTen move for Cael? BigTen vs. Big XII, I think the BigTen wins with depth. Only having 5 teams out of 12 in a conference...did this play a part or was it
just
the $250,000 over 5????
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on April 19, 2009
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"In the worlds of business, education, governement, sports and entertainment contracts are constantly broken/re-negotiated by good people. Fathers and Mothers, sons and daughters of good character who have lived good lives and who are simply trying to do what is best for themselves and their family.
I'm 37."
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Yea, nothing like everyone just thinking of themselves. :(
Can anyone who is over 50 tell me when integrity and honor became irrelevant to the next generation?
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on April 19, 2009
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Quote from Steve Lester's post:
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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"In the worlds of business, education, governement, sports and entertainment contracts are constantly broken/re-negotiated by good people. Fathers and Mothers, sons and daughters of good character who have lived good lives and who are simply trying to do what is best for themselves and their family.
I'm 37."
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Renotiated contracts are not the same thing as broken contracts. Breaking them often has consequences of some sort or to some extent. I guessing a fair amount of attorneys are involved in them."
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Renegotiating is a TWO way street. Breaking is just ONE way. BIIIIIIIG difference.
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on April 19, 2009
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Quote from Stu Herman's post:
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"There is a liquidated damages provision (where Cael would pay Iowa State a monetary penalty for not continuing his term) in nearly EVERY coach's contract in every sport. He didn't break his contract, he used his ability to get out of his contract legally but probably at a penalty. Some contracts only kick the liquidated damages provision in if he were to go to say Iowa or within the Big 12 and I haven't seen his Iowa State contract to tell you.
Most times it is likely if he leaves after the first year he pays (just an example) $50,000, after the second year $40,000, after the third $30,000, etc. If Iowa State did not have one of these provisions for a high profile coach like Cael, it is their in-house counsel's fault. Look at what West Virginia got for Rich Rodriguez leaving, that is a perfect example of this provision in effect. Most of the time you don't hear about them but anyone can look at the contract of a coach at a state school by submitting a public records request and probably paying a small copying fee to the school.
That being said I really cannot believe that anyone would not leave their current job for 4 or 5 times their current salary. As fans of wrestling I would hope people understand how monumental this is for the sport. By Cael getting such a record deal he is likely one of, if not THE, highest paid coach in a non-revenue sport. In fact, he is as high or higher than probably 60 percent of Division 1 football coaches. This may start the "arms race" in wrestling that everyone has been waiting for where revenue and resources are finally put into programs. Not to mention that paying the best to stick around and coach will keep them in the sport and not jumping ship to MMA. I hope that more schools take the "throw a ton of money at a big name" approach and show that they ACTUALLY care about wrestling and the success of their program."
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Not if I have an agreement with my current employer. Now if there is a legal out that might be a different story.
But this is about more than just money. I don't know at all, but just wonder how many of the boys recruited were told he is going to be there for their four years.
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on April 19, 2009
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"Can anyone who is over 50 tell me when integrity and honor became irrelevant to the next generation?"
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So, are you saying that everyone who leaves one job for another while under contract has considers integrity and honor to be irrelevant? Or are you saying that everyone under 50 feels that way? That's a pretty wide brush you're painting with.
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Gary Sommers added to this discussion on April 19, 2009
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Quote from Michael Rodriguez's post:
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"Can anyone who is over 50 tell me when integrity and honor became irrelevant to the next generation?"
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So, are you saying that everyone who leaves one job for another while under contract has considers integrity and honor to be irrelevant? Or are you saying that everyone under 50 feels that way? That's a pretty wide brush you're painting with."
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Yes to the first question. Like I said earlier, words and handshakes used to mean something and now apparently to some signed contracts are meaningless.
No, not everyone but I do believe it is a generational thing for the most part. And face it, I did guess your age range based on your stance on this.
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Discussion Topic: College futures of David Taylor and Jamie Clark?
Michael Rodriguez added to this discussion on April 19, 2009
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Quote from Gary Sommers's post:
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"Not if I have an agreement with my current employer. Now if there is a legal out that might be a different story.
But this is about more than just money. I don't know at all, but just wonder how many of the boys recruited were told he is going to be there for their four years."
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So now that he may have a legal and ethical way out that both parties agree to, it becomes about the kids. It's starting to sound like you have an axe to grind, whether it against Sanderson, or Penn State, or the under 50 crowd, I don't know. But I think you're looking at this from the wrong angle. Assuming he had a clause like the one Stu mentioned, since when is a man trying to move up the latter and improve his work situation dishonorable?
An honest question, under what circumstances would a coach be allowed to change jobs within your "over 50 moraliry code"? Sanderson had known Taylor since he was a freshman at Iowa State, that's ten years. the Penn State job came into play in the last two weeks. What exactly could Sanderson done to satisfy your code?
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